Brazen Predators

[Tom Threetoes]

I have no actual data to back this up but when the bobcat sightings started here in Southern Indiana the turkey population started to drop. Small game populations were already way down. Why the DNR is so protective of the bobcat is a mystery to me. We certainly don't need them to keep turkey and small game numbers in check.

[Trax]

Any healthy ecosystem has predator/prey dynamics.
Bobcats and turkeys have been living together for millennia it's not all this sudden a problem.

We can tweak harvest and land management practices here and there, but overall a healthy bobcat population is indicative of a solid prey base (turkeys and other small game) which is what we all want.

[Tom Threetoes]

Any healthy ecosystem has predator/prey dynamics.
Bobcats and turkeys have been living together for millennia it's not all this sudden a problem.

We can tweak harvest and land management practices here and there, but overall a healthy bobcat population is indicative of a solid prey base (turkeys and other small game) which is what we all want.
This is the response that I can't understand. How can we think the bobcat is an indication of a healthy turkey population when turkey numbers are declining across the country, especially in Southern IN.  Bobcats were never numerous here but when they started to be more common our turkey numbers took a nose dive.

[Trax]

Turkey populations are up and down across the board, depending on which state you go to.
And if you ask 10 different hunters why, you'll probably get 10 different answers. Everything from strutter decoys to global climate change gets blamed. But I guess locally it must be bobcats in your neck of the woods. Ok.
Across most of their range turkeys and bobcats have been living together just fine since well before Columbus hit the beach, but maybe it's different for some reason just recently.

[Happy]

I will just keep my mouth shut. No one wants to fix the problem in the most effective and quickest way anyways. We want all benefits and no sacrifice these days.

[zelmo1]

I get the whole more prey more predator thing. My point is there is nothing to keep the predators in check. They have to eat and they are multiplying and they prey is going down. Hence "Old lady jones cats go missing" bobcats are usually not seen in daylight hours, this one was sauntering down a busy back road hunting. We go to extremes to fix problems and create others. The predators for turkeys, not to mention egg stealers, numbers are going up, hunters included. What or who preys on bobcats? Us , that's who and they closed the season on them even trappers. Extreme decision that causes another( see above)

[guesswho]

Serious question because I don't know, and wonder what others think.  Who kills more turkeys in a year, people or Bobcats?

[zelmo1]

Per capital, bobcats. They all hunt, humans don't. But sheer numbers say people probably do

[Jester87]

Trying to do my part. They are hell on quail too.

[Southerngobbler]

I know people who paid their house off with bobcat pelts. You used to could get $300-$400 bucks for a bobcat skin 20 years ago, and $400 was a lot more money back then. I'm not sure about the southern states- probably worth less there but financially they and other predators were desirable to harvest, not just for fun but for profit as well. Those days are long gone so the predator populations are way higher than they have ever been-much different than when they were targeted by just about anyone with a gun or trap. I don't expect there will ever be a good market in the united states for wild fur so while more and more  people are killing turkeys, less and less are targeting bobcats or coyotes.

[Jester87]

The antis are working hard to ban all feline hunting here in AZ. The game dept is playing politics, trying to keep both sides happy. They put lion quotas in each unit and ceased night hunts. For now, furbearers including bobcats are still unlimited Aug thru Mar. I dont even want to get into the wolf debacle and now talk of putting grizzlies back here too.

They've already convinced several counties to ban coyote calling contests, which took place in areas where the pronghorn populations are struggling due to predation. The trapper and predator calling clubs struggle to bring in new members. With pelt prices down these clubs can barely cover operating costs. The predator hunters kept the checks and balances. As they decline, so does our quarry including turkeys.

We get bus loads of antis mostly from California who stand outside Walmarts and show cute cuddly cat photos and get residents to sign in support of their props (my mom being one of those gullible enough to sign). She didnt talk to me for a month when she learned I was predator hunting. 

[NCL]

My understanding of the predator/prey relationship is that as prey numbers rise predators respond in kind with greater numbers. If turkeys were the only prey that bobcats, coyotes, mountain lions hunt then decreasing numbers of turkeys would suppress the number of predators.  The problem is most predators are hunters of opportunity so anything can be prey that they are large enough to stalk and kill. With the increased human populations moving into rural areas with domestic dogs and cats that can become prey, the predator base increased due to increase in food supply so now there is an imbalance due to the artificial food supply.  A few years back a friend lived in an area that was developed just on the out skirts of town that had a number of peacocks, a mountain lion started hunting the area and the peacocks were soon gone.The predator issue is only one aspect of decreasing turkey, in my area there seem to be increasing numbers of turkey or at least I am seeing them is areas that I did not see then 5 or 6 years, but it would seem to be one aspect with impact on the population.

[zelmo1]

Camping an hour north of my home and the coyotes and bobcats are everywhere. Been hunting/ running dogs and trapping for 40 years now, never have seen so many predators during the daylight hours. Just saw 3 yotes crossing an open field next to a major road. That tells me there are a lot of them and/or they have no natural fear of being seen. I need to start trapping those fuckers again. Hunting them may help a small area but not the long term solution. Trail cameras are loaded with pics of both too. Any suggestions besides hunting and trapping them? I can't hunt or trap bobcats in my state so those options are off the table. I did see 3 groups of poults today which was a good sign. 7/9/6, not terrible numbers. Over  50% survival if they have 12ish eggs. Stay cool peeps

[Yoder409]

My understanding of the predator/prey relationship is that as prey numbers rise predators respond in kind with greater numbers.

In a perfect ecosystem........yes.  But there are more predators now than in my (50-ish year) memory.  There is less small game now (to the point of near eradication), even in areas of prime habitat.  The numbers of avian predators.......especially redtails and great horned owls..............is staggering.  You KNOW something is wrong with the predator/prey ratio when you are routinely seeing redtail hawks......which are predators........scavenging...... eating roadkill in the SUMMER.  Summer is when prey numbers should be at their very highest and the young prey at its very dumbest.  Pickings SHOULD be easy right now.

[Rzrbac]

I like to do my part when it comes to managing predators. Most folks around here feel the same way.


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