One Reason It Is Harder To Hunt Public Ground

[3bailey3]

Sil they bought close to 30 thousand acres in Warren co. Anderson Tully land, members were told they had only weeks to get their stuff out, camps that had been in going for more than 20 years!

[3bailey3]

I used to work down by the public land you hunt Sil, WW Dixion and Warren Hood land, private places that don't have birds like they used to, still not sure why the birds aren't there any more!

[GobbleNut]

You bring up some valid points for a senile old man gobblenut.

Well put NCL, Gobblenut and Happy, you are make excellent points. You are far from senile Gobblenut, you always bring excellent points to a discussion.

Don't take Happy seriously, Sir-diealot.  He is one of those young whipper-snappers that thinks he knows more than us "elderly statesmen" around here.  Besides, calling me senile is a compliment,...most others just think I have dementia.  As the saying goes, of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Even so,...I'm still smarter than some West Virginia and Alablama boys I know around here...   

[Sir-diealot]

You bring up some valid points for a senile old man gobblenut.

Well put NCL, Gobblenut and Happy, you are make excellent points. You are far from senile Gobblenut, you always bring excellent points to a discussion.

Don't take Happy seriously, Sir-diealot.  He is one of those young whipper-snappers that thinks he knows more than us "elderly statesmen" around here.  Besides, calling me senile is a compliment,...most others just think I have dementia.  As the saying goes, of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Even so,...I'm still smarter than some West Virginia and Alablama boys I know around here...   

lol I know ya'll were joshing, I pick on myself a lot as well like you did yourself before his comment.

[Happy]

You bring up some valid points for a senile old man gobblenut.

Well put NCL, Gobblenut and Happy, you are make excellent points. You are far from senile Gobblenut, you always bring excellent points to a discussion.

Don't take Happy seriously, Sir-diealot.  He is one of those young whipper-snappers that thinks he knows more than us "elderly statesmen" around here.  Besides, calling me senile is a compliment,...most others just think I have dementia.  As the saying goes, of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Even so,...I'm still smarter than some West Virginia and Alablama boys I know around here...   

lol I know ya'll were joshing, I pick on myself a lot as well like you did yourself before his comment.

I don't know about me being smart and all. I am still trying to find my white privilege. I didn't know I had it but apparently I do. Apparently as soon as I find it I need to feel bad about it so if anyone knows where it might be located I would appreciate some directions.

[Happy]

On a serious note I still believe that the drop in population is due to a lot of factors.
There is a higher number of avian predators than I can ever remember in the past.
The lack of trapping has led to more nest predation than in years past.
The trend of baiting wildlife has led to more turkeys being concentrated on those private tracts and staying there. I believe things need to be analyzed and changes made in order to boost overall numbers. To me the options are to restrict bag limits or tighten up the regs on legal means of hunting them. As a side note I haven't seen the wildlife officers actively seeking out poaching or even patrolling as much as I used to either. That might help a bit as well.

[deerhunt1988]

One thing I've failed to see mentioned in this thread is how the bulk of wildlife conservation is funded: through excise taxes on hunting/fishing equipment, guns and ammo, and the sale of hunting/fishing licenses. Less hunters, less spending, less money towards wildlife conservation. So those of you who are having second thoughts on hunter recruitment, be careful what you wish for. 

[sasquatch1]

One thing I've failed to see mentioned in this thread is how the bulk of wildlife conservation is funded: through excise taxes on hunting/fishing equipment, guns and ammo, and the sale of hunting/fishing licenses. Less hunters, less spending, less money towards wildlife conservation. So those of you who are having second thoughts on hunter recruitment, be careful what you wish for.

I kill my fair share of birds. But YOU are detrimental to the population more than big spring rains haha.

All jokes aside, good points!

Ready for the elk mountains yet? Heading out in sept if you wanna join camp!


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[Bolandstrutters]

Turkey hunting used to be something that took patience and skill.  Now every slob on tv just hops out of the truck with a fan in front of their face and goes out and kills one.  Or sits in a blind with a jake decoy and never picks up a call.  I hope this is just a phase, but im worried about the future of turkey hunting. 

[GobbleNut]

On a serious note I still believe that the drop in population is due to a lot of factors.
There is a higher number of avian predators than I can ever remember in the past.
The lack of trapping has led to more nest predation than in years past.
The trend of baiting wildlife has led to more turkeys being concentrated on those private tracts and staying there. I believe things need to be analyzed and changes made in order to boost overall numbers. To me the options are to restrict bag limits or tighten up the regs on legal means of hunting them. As a side note I haven't seen the wildlife officers actively seeking out poaching or even patrolling as much as I used to either. That might help a bit as well.

All great points, Happy,...and the cumulative affect of all of these, plus others mentioned, make it very difficult to implement management strategies that will have much impact.  All of the negative elements could be offset with a few good years of nesting success and poult survival, assuming there are enough adult turkeys left for that and all the stars line up to create conditions for that.

Perhaps a renewed emphasis on trapping and transplanting turkeys would speed up the process.  The more adults that are out there, the more difference one or two good years of successful reproduction would make.  A mind-set like that from back in the seventies and eighties, when wildlife management agencies and sportsmen/NWTF were focused on trap and transplant efforts, would certainly help, I believe.

[NCL]

I agree that the fundamental root of the "problem" is human population growth.  However, the number of people who hunt is steadily decreasing.  As I recall (and my recollection is admittedly questionable), the current percentage of people who hunt in the U.S. is down to about 3%.  A decade or so ago, it was around 7%,...and three or four decades ago, it was about 15%. 

Three things are happening: 1) fewer and fewer younger-generation folks are taking up hunting; 2) the older generation is dying out or quitting due to age; and 3) hunters in all age groups are quitting due to increased difficulty in being able to find places to hunt.

On the other hand, those of us that are dedicated hunters are sticking with it,...and even expanding our horizons,...hence, the increasing numbers of turkey hunters traveling to hunt different states and the like.

The bottom line is that there has to be a balance between the welfare of the resource (wildlife populations) and the amount of hunting pressure that can be put on that resource. 

We, as hunters, strive to preserve the hunting tradition because we have seen how it enhances our lives  We do that by trying to "pass it on" to younger generations.  We also see that as protecting our own interests as hunters by having more voices of support for hunting in a world that, overall, sees less and less value in the human hunter.

The dilemma we face in recruiting more and more hunters is that we are, in actuality, negatively impacting our own hunting experiences,...and as has been demonstrated by the trends and demographics, too many hunters begins to sour even the most ardent hunter. 

The point is that we need to be careful what we wish for in terms of hunter recruitment.  As we are beginning to see, too many of us can come back to bite us in the butt.  I could go into great detail as to how that has affected us out here in my home state,...perhaps another time.,

Very well stated. I do question if the hunting population is actually numerical going down or in reality just static. What I mean by the statement is as the population of the US rises, unless that hunting population rises at the same rate the percentage will fall, 7% of a 100 million people is actually less than 3% of 350 million people.

[GobbleNut]

One thing I've failed to see mentioned in this thread is how the bulk of wildlife conservation is funded: through excise taxes on hunting/fishing equipment, guns and ammo, and the sale of hunting/fishing licenses. Less hunters, less spending, less money towards wildlife conservation. So those of you who are having second thoughts on hunter recruitment, be careful what you wish for.

I personally have nothing against recruiting new hunters.  If a kid or adult decides they want to go hunting, that's great. ...But that has to be balanced with the fact that too much of a good thing is detrimental to both our wildlife resources and the hunting community, in general.  The human hunting pressure that can be placed on our wildlife is finite.  There is a tipping point.

To me, having a smaller number of dedicated hunters/conservationists that understand wildlife management and the role of hunting in our world is better than having ten times that many with 90% of them looking at hunting as nothing more than a real-life video game. 

Your statement regarding the issue of who pays for wildlife conservation is right on target.  We most certainly have outgrown the concept of hunters and fishermen paying for everything.  It is high time that other funding mechanisms be investigated and implemented that include everybody, hunters and non-hunters alike.  (Some states have implemented a general-fund, tax earmark for this,...and it seems to be working out just fine as far as I know)

The "double-edged sword" in that concept, however, is that by getting everybody involved in paying for wildlife conservation, you bring the anti-hunters and anti-leaning non-hunters to the management table.  That has its own inherent risks, but for me personally, that is better than flooding the woods with the real-life, video game players who, other than pulling the trigger, don't do one positive thing for wildlife conservation,...or hunter's image. 

[GobbleNut]

I do question if the hunting population is actually numerical going down or in reality just static. What I mean by the statement is as the population of the US rises, unless that hunting population rises at the same rate the percentage will fall, 7% of a 100 million people is actually less than 3% of 350 million people.

Of course, you are right in that math and logic.  I believe, overall, that actual hunter numbers are going down in a lot of places (if I wasn't so lazy, I would take the time to research it... ).  Conversely, I am certain that in some places and with some game species, the numbers are increasing.  I believe turkey hunting, in particular, is following that trend.

Several years ago, I read a report that stated that hunter numbers were decreasing in every arena except turkey hunting.  I don't know if that is still the case, but it does shed some light on some of the crowded-woods discussions we have had here.

[Sir-diealot]

One thing I've failed to see mentioned in this thread is how the bulk of wildlife conservation is funded: through excise taxes on hunting/fishing equipment, guns and ammo, and the sale of hunting/fishing licenses. Less hunters, less spending, less money towards wildlife conservation. So those of you who are having second thoughts on hunter recruitment, be careful what you wish for.

I personally have nothing against recruiting new hunters.  If a kid or adult decides they want to go hunting, that's great. ...But that has to be balanced with the fact that too much of a good thing is detrimental to both our wildlife resources and the hunting community, in general.  The human hunting pressure that can be placed on our wildlife is finite.  There is a tipping point.

To me, having a smaller number of dedicated hunters/conservationists that understand wildlife management and the role of hunting in our world is better than having ten times that many with 90% of them looking at hunting as nothing more than a real-life video game. 

Your statement regarding the issue of who pays for wildlife conservation is right on target.  We most certainly have outgrown the concept of hunters and fishermen paying for everything.  It is high time that other funding mechanisms be investigated and implemented that include everybody, hunters and non-hunters alike.  (Some states have implemented a general-fund, tax earmark for this,...and it seems to be working out just fine as far as I know)

The "double-edged sword" in that concept, however, is that by getting everybody involved in paying for wildlife conservation, you bring the anti-hunters and anti-leaning non-hunters to the management table.  That has its own inherent risks, but for me personally, that is better than flooding the woods with the real-life, video game players who, other than pulling the trigger, don't do one positive thing for wildlife conservation,...or hunter's image.

Hey, leave the video gamers out of this, I is one! Though it is becoming less and less since I have started to be able to hunt again.

[guesswho]

I'm still smarter than some West Virginia and Alablama boys I know around here...   

Anybody I know?