When is Enough Enough?

[owlhoot]

Motorized decoys and electric calling , drones and thermal imagery should all be illegal.
Blinds and decoys have been used since the 1970's.   Of course not as many or as good as what we have today.  From an old book, not sure which one ?Old pro turkey hunter? Building a portable blind instruction were included. I have also seen decoys that were plywood painted by hand as far back as the 70's.
Now the 3 1/2" 12 gauge was a huge improvement on turkey killing as distance was greatly improved and 30 -40 yards away was not the limit any more.
Turkey hunting just got turned into turkey shooting. Many were killed at 50-60.
Longbeard loads just increased or reinforced those limits and added a few yards. This to me is where it needed to be stopped.
As far as the old school, these guns and loads are not at all an old school methodology .
You don't have to work a turkey close to the gun . Which used to be the biggest challenge.

[Tom Foolery]

...The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them...After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.

I know, right?  Shame on the majority of the guys on this forum!   

Dadgum law followers.   

[LaLongbeard]

One thing the cry baby do anything for a kill plugs do not understand.If decoys fanning blinds etc. were not available or legal it would reduce hunter numbers by 70% if not more. People are unbelievably lazy and would not attempt to hunt without several crutches of some sort. There would be plenty of public land without fat sweaty people breathing from there mouth and blowing crow calls 45 min. before daylite . If I never had to  see another 30lb over weight hunter with man boobs trying to carry 4 decoys a blind 2 chairs and a turkey fan to go sit 100 yards off a road and squawk on a box call for an hour straight I'd be thrilled. But sadly this will never be the plugs out number us by a large amount so much so that they have convinced themselves that what thy do is hunting and its OK for men to have boobs lol. For the record its not OK.

[Bowguy]

Sir, I'm not sure what you mean by will be have to draw the line?   The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them.  So, the state is the only ones who can regulate them.  They have no self regulation whatsoever.  From most of their attitudes, they would hunt over a pile of corn with 6 funky chickens and a B-Mobile  with a couple DSD hens using an electronic caller while they crawled behind a strutter with a real fan on him if it were legal.  After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.

Id disagree that the majority of guys on this forum would do anything. I don't hear anyone bragging about bait or roost shooting though some actually may. I believe the guys on this forum are pretty ethical n sportsmanlike for the most part. It's just splitting hairs on what's right/ wrong if that makes sense.
I'd bet most guys  outside this forum prob do use any legal method and some that are but they don't bleed turkey hunting if that makes sense. Part of the reason so many guys here are stand up imo is the age bracket. Lots of experience n they're looking to do things their way n have it challenging. No pride in using methods they personally don't approve of. It's part of the evolution of a hunter. The personal challenge phrases

[Bowguy]

One thing the cry baby do anything for a kill plugs do not understand.If decoys fanning blinds etc. were not available or legal it would reduce hunter numbers by 70% if not more. People are unbelievably lazy and would not attempt to hunt without several crutches of some sort. There would be plenty of public land without fat sweaty people breathing from there mouth and blowing crow calls 45 min. before daylite . If I never had to  see another 30lb over weight hunter with man boobs trying to carry 4 decoys a blind 2 chairs and a turkey fan to go sit 100 yards off a road and squawk on a box call for an hour straight I'd be thrilled. But sadly this will never be the plugs out number us by a large amount so much so that they have convinced themselves that what thy do is hunting and its OK for men to have boobs lol. For the record its not OK.

Phillipshunts I agree w your comment if things were harder there'd be less hunters. This is why the game depts allow some of this. Money makes the world go round n license sales are money.
Mentor some folks in the ways you feel are correct.

Now I've never said anything to you so don't take me wrong. I've seen others bash you after you've bashed others. Trust me I'm no out of shape crybaby nor a bleeding heart so I'm saying this man to man. No need to attack people n I believe the attacks on you may stop if you considered your delivery.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Well, I would like to thing you are right. But I'm not so sure anymore, hunters attitudes have changed so much now with this new breed of hunter.  You don't hear about shooting over bait because it's not legal, if it were legal many would do it whether or not they tell about it in a forum.  Same with roost shooting, not legal in many states but if it were many would do it, probably wouldn't tell about it in a forum.     Let's not be delusional here, whatever the state allows will be employed by the majority of turkey hunters out there now.  If it's legal, they will justify it as being okay and an acceptable practice, most of them anyway. You have to understand the kill is more important than the hunt to this new breed of hunter.  Don't deceive yourself into thinking that these hunters are going to somehow reject advances in technology because it makes the sport to easy or less challenging.  You have to understand that they want and need it easy in order to have a chance for success.  They depend on their tools, crutches, aids whatever you call them to get their birds.  The more the law will allow, the more they will employ.   

[Bowguy]

Well, I would like to thing you are right. But I'm not so sure anymore, hunters attitudes have changed so much now with this new breed of hunter.  You don't hear about shooting over bait because it's not legal, if it were legal many would do it whether or not they tell about it in a forum.  Same with roost shooting, not legal in many states but if it were many would do it, probably wouldn't tell about it in a forum.     Let's not be delusional here, whatever the state allows will be employed by the majority of turkey hunters out there now.  If it's legal, they will justify it as being okay and an acceptable practice, most of them anyway. You have to understand the kill is more important than the hunt to this new breed of hunter.  Don't deceive yourself into thinking that these hunters are going to somehow reject advances in technology because it makes the sport to easy or less challenging.  You have to understand that they want and need it easy in order to have a chance for success.  They depend on their tools, crutches, aids whatever you call them to get their birds.  The more the law will allow, the more they will employ.

You are very correct but I referred to the evolution of hunters n the age/experience level of hunters. The evolution I'm sure you know works like this. Some hunters never fully make it through all the phases but
Step one- I need to kill/catch  anything/something
Step two-I need a limit
Step 3-4 can be intertwined/interchanged, there the limiting phases, be it going for a trophy sized animal in order to challenge oneself or using tougher equipment that self imposes less chances.
It can be bows, stykbows being the most challenging. Say fly rods in fishing, smaller guns, etc etc.
now the "How many springs" thread was very impressive. Some guys have been at it a lot longer than me and I thought I was an old timer.
The age experience level is why they're in the limiting stages.
Remember some guys cheat for trophies n it makes em illegitimate. They can't succeed without cheating n I'm sure we all despise that. Following the law isn't cheating but in many eyes disrespecting the game. Hope this made sense.
Yes new breed needs instant gratification n success. Mentor some folks into being proud to earn an animal

[Ihuntoldschool]

I agree with you.  You said the key word right there, earn an animal.  If you start out in this sport and take the time to learn how to turkey hunt you will earn your first bird and chances are good that you will continue to earn your birds.  However, if you start out and take every legal advantage you can to get a bird killed, did you earn him or was he bought with all the latest tools and technology?  And when you get that instant gratification from that kill that was bought not earned, in all likelihood you will continue to buy your birds and never really earn them by learning how to turkey hunt.   Everyone is going to hunt how they wish within what the law allows hopefully.  However, I am not going to sit here and say that all birds are being earned as many are bought these days in my opinion. 

[Bowguy]

Agreed

[stinkpickle]

Which technological tool "buys" a bird?  I want to know, so I can sell it and get rich.

[guesswho]

I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs.  They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.

[stinkpickle]

I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs.  They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.

I'd never leave the house.

[owlhoot]

I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs.  They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.

Please stay in the blind 

[g8rvet]

Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. "

Yes it was.  Sort of... 

I tried to moderate the discussion and re-direct when it quickly degenerated into the same ole personal preference, urinary contest. But, soon gave up.

I'll try again. Do you think some of the recently emerged technology and innovations have given any advantage to hunters? No doubt about it.  Good, bad or indifferent...  What else is likely to be developed and possibly adopted by turkey hunters? Hard to say. I never would have imagined GPS technology, let alone cell phones.  When I started duck hunting, we used handheld radios to talk to each other from boat to boat.  We walked through places to find openings in timber and put miles and miles on our boats to find birds.  I had the first mud motor in my area that I had seen. Would get stopped and asked about it on every trip.  Before that we mostly paddled. Someone mentioned use of drones. How about other remote sensing technologies?  What if one day soon thermal imaging advances to the point that it can distinguish a gobbler from a goose and becomes affordable?  It is already there, if you could afford it.  GPS was not for the public either when it started.  Would you use it? For what?   Would you care if others used it? Only if it affected the population or me. 

Again, when is enough enough?  Will we one day soon have to draw the line? Some people think we are already way past that point.  Certainly there are things available that are way past that point for me.  But the only people that I can instill ethics in are the people I mentor.  My son and 2 nephews respect game laws, hunt with respect for the hunt itself and for others.  I don't really take other turkey hunters much, but have taken a lot of duck hunters.  Only a rare few get repeat invites.

Answers in the quote.

What I find ironic, is that the preachers on here are actually enforcing the "success" culture that they eschew.  They say they are "better turkey hunters" and that others should strive to be like them.  Without proper mentoring, new hunters (be they young or old) often think success is about the kill.  Seen it time and again with deer, duck and turkey hunters over the years.  These "noobs" then look at the law, say it is legal, and if I wanna be a good hunter, I have to have a picture of me holding a dead turkey to be better than other hunters.  Or better yet, they video themselves and post it on social media.  Where other new hunters see their "success" and if they wanna be good, they gotta kill too. In the "real" good old days, hunting was about putting food on the table with a hobby that you enjoyed, not about bragging to anyone that would listen how good you are.  My great uncle thought we were insane for deer hunting.  He said when he wanted deer meat, he would sit in his barn, flip on a light and harvest one with his 22LR.   

It is real simple. If you want to make a difference in how people view things, you discuss it with them. A**clowns like man boob boy will never understand that due to their own ignorance and sense of self importance.  So they put everyone off, even when many of their points are valid.  Oldschool does that a lot too, just has not elevated it to the same art form.  I have been hunting a long time and my views on things have evolved as I have matured. I learn from oldtimers and new comers to my various outdoor pursuits.  Only a mouth breather has the exact same views today as they did 25 years ago, because they are too simple to do any different.  Not the same ethics, the same views.  Intelligent people evolve their opinions. 

Does this site have an ignore button?  I think I am going to look for it. 

[Spurs Up]

Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. "

Yes it was.  Sort of... 

I tried to moderate the discussion and re-direct when it quickly degenerated into the same ole personal preference, urinary contest. But, soon gave up.

I'll try again. Do you think some of the recently emerged technology and innovations have given any advantage to hunters? No doubt about it.  Good, bad or indifferent...  What else is likely to be developed and possibly adopted by turkey hunters? Hard to say. I never would have imagined GPS technology, let alone cell phones.  When I started duck hunting, we used handheld radios to talk to each other from boat to boat.  We walked through places to find openings in timber and put miles and miles on our boats to find birds.  I had the first mud motor in my area that I had seen. Would get stopped and asked about it on every trip.  Before that we mostly paddled. Someone mentioned use of drones. How about other remote sensing technologies?  What if one day soon thermal imaging advances to the point that it can distinguish a gobbler from a goose and becomes affordable?  It is already there, if you could afford it.  GPS was not for the public either when it started.  Would you use it? For what?   Would you care if others used it? Only if it affected the population or me. 

Again, when is enough enough?  Will we one day soon have to draw the line? Some people think we are already way past that point.  Certainly there are things available that are way past that point for me.  But the only people that I can instill ethics in are the people I mentor.  My son and 2 nephews respect game laws, hunt with respect for the hunt itself and for others.  I don't really take other turkey hunters much, but have taken a lot of duck hunters.  Only a rare few get repeat invites.

Answers in the quote.

Thanks for keeping this discussion focused and on a civil plane.

I admire the importance you place on mentoring.  Do you think mentoring and peer pressure are enough to stem the rate of adoption of inevitable innovations that might make it easier and easier to kill a turkey?  If not, what can and who should?  What role should state game departments, NWTF, and manufacturers play?  If you think we're past "that point" now, who is to blame?