Can't figure out the no flopping argument.

[Longshanks]

After 42 years of turkey hunting and 25 years of guiding, believe or not, everyone doesn't make a perfect shot on every bird. Not even some of the best turkey hunters in the country. Not a question of being ethical or not. If you turkey hunt as long as I have and harvest as many as I have,  you are going to lose a few turkeys. It's unfortunate and a bad day in the woods. I have only lost a few of all the turkeys I have dropped the hammer on.  Those were all with lead. Hevi shot normally puts the turkey down or there is a clean miss provided the turkey is in range. 40yds or less. When I run across people who say they have never missed a turkey or lost a turkey..my hat is off to you..but the majority of seasoned hunters I know have experienced this at some point with deer and turkeys. All the best to you in the turkey woods!

[Dr Juice]

I'm the beginning of my addiction, I lost a couple due to extended yardage beyond my guesstimate. Therefore, I invested and use diamond reticle scopes to reduce the guesswork. Hopefully, my future losses will be zero or close to it. Good luck to all.

[turkey buster]

Call me an expert (joke) but I've killed turkeys with about 7 different loads.. The least of the loads were Remington 2.75 duplex 4x6 shells and the coveted Hevi 3.5in magnum blends. In the middle has been Winchester red 3in and 3in and 3.5in black shells, long beards 3 and 3.5 inch...you get the point. I've seen no flop with the duplex and long beards, but not the Hevi or the other Winchester shells. Do I say it was because one shell was superior to another? NO! Simple matter here...A turkeys anatomy and where you hit him.

A Remington Duplex is far less superior to Hevi but it out performed it if you think flopping or not makes a shell better. Me personally I shoot longbeards and since the switch I've seen 2 of the 3 killed with it flop

[davisd9]

You and I are both saying the same thing. Flop or not, the turkey going down and staying down is the goal. I have just had better success with HTL in accomplishing this goal.

x2. The stunned tom shuffle ? Which to me is a tom that can get his head back up or pull himself across the ground or try to spur you. Htl has been better for me also. I also have had less nerve flopping where the tom flops in place or a few feet max. Now better pattern may have something to do with it . Better penetration who knows ?
Some don't flop at all, guess will have to be called a lie  or lose some credibility 

Definitely the stunned Tom shuffle! Man I do not miss it at all. Good story at times but can slowly get up and work my way to him.

[Hooks' n' Beards']

I have never heard anybody say anything remotely like that,maybe an online chest pounding thing?I shoot 3.5" because  I want to and I am confident in my setup.Flop or no flop,that's just funny.

[THattaway]

Opinions from 30+ years killing turkeys:
Any of them are subject to flopping. I will admit though, I have had a bit less flop, move or what have you when shot spot on with HTL loads. When they do flop I like to call it the "broke neck shuffle". Lead loads (traditional magnum loads) produced more that flopped a bit and even a few that laid for a couple minutes and got back up. Probably because those lead killed turkeys simply were not subjected to as much damage from the shot, gun patterned more openly, less force absorbed, etc. I developed the habit of running out to toms when I used lead because of those few experiences from whatever cause either equipment or the user's fault. With HTL I just walk out but I keep an eye on any turkey that has been shot till I get to them just as I would any game animal I hunt with any weapon. One other thing I have noticed, sometimes you can shoot a tom (with any type load) and if left alone he will lay still till dead or only slightly quiver. If you touch one it seems to be more apt to trigger a more violent flopping response. May be with the added confidence of load and equipment these days that my walking out and not immediately touching the turkey allows them to be more apt to expire without as much flopping movement. Flopping seems to be an involuntary response on their part.

I shot one big tom at 24 steps years ago with lead 5s. He hit the ground and lay stone dead with trickles of blood pumping out of his head and neck. I approached and laid a boot on his neck (habit) and there was zero movement. Checked out his beard and spurs then pulled out my wallet and got a tag, stepped off the turkey to place it on his leg and heard air wheezing in. Then all heck broke loose with flopping. He wasn't going anywhere but he sure was trying with that last gasp of life. With lead I always made sure to cut their air off as quick as I could. You have to understand that back then a gun that put 12 pellets in the head and neck target at 40 was smoking lethal.

[nosaj]

A good friend of mine shot a bird 10-15 years ago.  He tagged the bird carried it out of the field put it in the back of his truck (with a cap) and drove 5 miles to check the turkey in at a local gun shop.  He gets to the gun shop opens the cap and your guessed it...the turkey is standing in the back of the truck staring him and the gun shop owner in the face  .  At that point he slammed the cap shut pulled out his knife and had the shop owner close the cap after he jumped in         and bedlam ensued with the turkey eventually succumbing.  When the gun shop owner tells the story  he says that based on the noise and action going on in the back of the truck he wasn't sure which one of them was going to emerge the winner.  I did see the bird and the back of the truck after the fact and it was not pretty !       

[Gobspur]

A good friend of mine shot a bird 10-15 years ago.  He tagged the bird carried it out of the field put it in the back of his truck (with a cap) and drove 5 miles to check the turkey in at a local gun shop.  He gets to the gun shop opens the cap and your guessed it...the turkey is standing in the back of the truck staring him and the gun shop owner in the face  .  At that point he slammed the cap shut pulled out his knife and had the shop owner close the cap after he jumped in         and bedlam ensued with the turkey eventually succumbing.  When the gun shop owner tells the story  he says that based on the noise and action going on in the back of the truck he wasn't sure which one of them was going to emerge the winner.  I did see the bird and the back of the truck after the fact and it was not pretty !     

[Longshanks]

Yup, I shot a turkey one time and threw him over my shoulder and walked out. Put him in the back of my stuck and started driving out of the lease. Turkey came to and jumped over the side of the truck. Couldn't fly but I had to chase him down to finish him off. That shell was lead. You just never knew what was going to happen.
      I also shot a turkey one time when I was a young man and he was on the ground flopping. Came to and chased me spurring me and tore my pants leg. Left my gun at the tree. I have numerous scars on my hands from picking up turkeys after they were shot and being spurred. Over grown rooster can put a hurt on you.

[nosaj]

Yup, I shot a turkey one time and threw him over my shoulder and walked out. Put him in the back of my stuck and started driving out of the lease. Turkey came to and jumped over the side of the truck. Couldn't fly but I had to chase him down to finish him off. That shell was lead. You just never knew what was going to happen.

Yea, I am sure my buddy was shooting lead back then as well, he was just lucky to have the cap     

[owlhoot]

Had one old long-spurred tom in the passenger side floor board of my bronco come back . Had his head up looking around.
This after hauling him out in a vest and driving down the gravel for a few hundred yards.
Had to twist and break his neck.
Lead shot .
The stunned tom shuffle in the cab with ya while driving puts it in a whole new level.
Crazy stuff.

[Tail Feathers]

I had one bird not flop.  I had one flop after I took the top half of his bead and beak clean off at 5 yards and he flopped.
There may be that "switch" that we occasionally hit but having killed more than a few with HTL, I don't see much difference in the bird's reaction if he's shot within the effective range of the load.

[THattaway]

Called a big tom off the roost for a friend in the early 90s. Tom landed and strutted a few steps to about 24 yards and friend shot him with lead 6s. I ran out and stood on toms head and then rushed friend to hurry up and get the tom so we could light out after a couple more toms still gobbling down the river bottom. I stepped off the tom's neck, he tagged the bird then took off his vest and unbuckled the game bag to lay it open. As he reached for the tom it sprang up and took off running. After a 30 yard dash I tackled the tom then wrung his neck. Friend stood with wide open eyes asking me "What if he had gotten away with my tag on his leg and someone else killed him?" Who knows why but I made sure he didn't get away. And I whacked one of those other toms at noon too.

[davisd9]

Thought I missed a nice tom on Saturday. I shot and he was disappeared with birds running around. They stopped a 100 yards or so away so I could not stand to see what happened. I was feeling sorry for myself when all of a sudden, flop, flop, flop, whew!!! He just dropped and did not start flopping for a minute or so. Thank goodness for the flop and I did not have to wait to know for sure until the other birds left.


Sent from the Strut Zone

[Farmboy27]

Wow!  If lead was/is really as poor and ineffective of a load as what all the stories here suggest, then I guess there was a pile of us(all of us actually) that were being very unethical back in the day by using a weapon and load that couldn't effectively kill our quarry. Shame on us!  I can't believe they haven't outlawed lead yet.