Observations with Longbeard shells this weekend.

[Skeeterbait]

Let me preface this by saying I am in no way wanting to start any arguments with this thread.  If an argument ensues I will ask CASH to delete the thread.  I am stating my personal observations with Winchester Longbeard XR 3.5" #5 (LBXR) and the now discontinued Winchester Xtended Range High Density (XRHD) 3.5" #6 this weekend should the information prove to be useful or interesting to anyone.  Since the XRHD can no longer be purchased, this is not an attempt to sway anyone to a certain shell.  However since this seems to be Winchester's replacement for the discontinued shell, I thought it interesting to observe how one compares to the other.

I needed to set the sight on a new Mossberg 935 22" this weekend.  I  have a stash of the XRHD shells and this will be my shell of choice until they run out.  The choke I was using is the Indian Creek BDS .675.  I picked up a box of LBXR out of curiosity and took them along.  I also secured a couple of identical phone books for a penetration test.  All testing was done at 40 yards, 68 degrees with very calm air.  There is nothing scientific about this test and I do not propose that this predicts performance on turkeys, only paper.  10 shells of each type were fired.

I had read that the LBXR shells were longer than other 3.5" shells due to the interesting plastic cover and rolled crimp style.  Side by side with the XRHD, they are absolutely identical in length.  Both shells performed flawlessly in the 935 with no FTE or FTF or FTL.

Patterns on the LBXR #5 were in the 170's and 180's in a 10 inch circle.
Patterns on the XRHD #6 were mostly in the 190's to 212 in a 10 inch circle but two shots were in the low 180's.
It would appear that the LBXR, while posting lower numbers which is to be expected, there are about 75 less shot per shell, posted better overall percentages and a bit more consistent patterns.
While I did not cut shells open and count, per my tables 2 oz of #6 from XRHD should be around 414 shot and 2 oz of lead #5 should be about 339 shot.  Highest count pattern for the XRHD was 212 which would be 51% and highest count for the LBXR was 186 which would be 55%.  This has made me interested in going back with a box of LBXR in #6 as I believe it may well beat the count of the XRHD #6 by a fair margin.  However that is only speculation at this time.

I also noted the POI for the LBXR #5 shot was a good 6 inches lower than the XRHD #6.  I am unsure of the reason for this.  It could be that despite the published velocities, 1200fps vs 1225fps, the LBXR is arriving slower.  Perhaps air resistance on the larger profile #5 shot is causing this, however this is also only speculation.

Which brings us to the phone book penetration test.  To my surprise, the LBXR #5 actually failed to penetrate the phone book as deeply as the XRHD #6 by around 50 less pages.  Conventional wisdom has held that larger shot retained down range energy and penetrated better.  This was my reason for choosing #5 for this test, trying to match a lead shot to a HTL shot size for a fair comparison.  This could support the theory above that the #5 shot is actually arriving at 40 yards slower, or it could be the larger profile shot simply encounters more resistance trying to push thru dry paper.  Either way, it only proves performance on paper, not on turkeys, or any other form of wet flesh.  It also does not indicate how much force overall was delivered to the phone books, which I have no means to measure.  The Lead LBXR shot proved to be sufficiently hard as all shot recovered from the phone book exhibited no visible deformation from the barrel and choke, or from the impact with the phone book.

In summary, this testing only proves that in my selected gun and choke, both shells pattern exceptionally well and are both easily lethal to 40 yards with plenty room for a yardage estimation error.  Once my stash of XRHD runs out, I will have no reservations in switching to the LBXR.

[davisd9]

Good review.  Always search out your posts.  The new longbeards will have no problem killing at 40 yards, but the marketing of the longer ranges is what bothers me.  Good luck this season!

[remmy1187]

Good write up skeeterbait,  I am curious if the lead pellets deformed on impact of the phone book and if so could be a major factor why they would not penetrate as far as the HD which I assume didn't deform.   Would be a good comparison with #6 LB and the #6 HD in the numbers department, keep us updated if you do try the 6'sin the Long Beard.

[drum817]

That's GREAT info!!!  THANKS for the post!!! 

[CASH]

Very good read. Thanks for the insight

[Skeeterbait]

I went back and added that the lead pellets from the LBXR recovered from the phone book had no visible deformation. 

[wvnut3]

Awesome read Skeeterbait, as always.Great info. Lee

[THattaway]

Question?
Did the #5s from the LB shell you pulled from the phone book look to be normal "5s"?
I shot a couple LB rounds this past weekend too and the pattern holes appeared smaller than the lead 5s should. May be wrong and figured I'd ask someone who has stated they held undeformed LB 5s.
Thanks

[Skeeterbait]

They were considerably larger than the HTL 6's.  I however did not put a mic on them and measure.  I was surprised how much bigger they were than the HTL 6's.

[bawana]

I noticed you said the HD's penetrated about 50 pages deeper, how deep into the phone book did each group penetrate?

[darn2ten]

Great read. Now you've got me thinking. Does anybody know if any or what the density difference between the xrhd and Hevi shot are? Though I'm like you, and don't know how much a phone book and a turkeys head have in common, except that I imagine a phone book is much more dense, this is still a neat test. I have some Hevi 6's and think I might just try this for observation. The big difference between the Win. XRHD and the Hevi is the velocity, 1225 vs 1090 which should make a difference. I'm a fan of Hevi 6's and LB 5's so this would be interesting to me. I know what the math says, but sometimes test are fun and enlightening. I've killed enough turkeys to know what each do, so that's not even the point. Just cool to piddle sometimes.

[THattaway]

They were considerably larger than the HTL 6's.  I however did not put a mic on them and measure.  I was surprised how much bigger they were than the HTL 6's.

Thanks for the reply. Good write up.

[Skeeterbait]

The way I evaluated the phone books is this.  First I found one outlier where two pellets entered the same hole and were found back to back in one hole.  This caused extra deep penetration on that hole only so I threw that hole out and did not count it.  For each I found the last page broken.  Not dented, but actually torn.  Then I backed up page by page until I found a page with at least 5 separate tears and counted that as the maximum penetration page.  For XRHD #6 it was the cover of the book and 172 actual pages.  Not page numbers, but actual pieces of paper.  For the LBXR #5 it was the cover and 118 actual pages.  I should also note that the books had been taped shut with duct tape to keep them from flying open and were suspended in a patterning frame hanging from strips of duct tape to allow them to flop back as energy was delivered.

[wingbonehntr]

Great post. Thanks for the info!!!!

[Mike Honcho]

Excellent information , well presented.  It makes sense to me that the higher density (ands smaller shot) would penetrate further but until you do what you did who knows the results.

Thanks