Just cant justify a 20 over a 12??

[savduck]

I think the biggest mis conception is that a 12 ga shoots further. Physics affects how far the shot travels not the gauge of the gun.

A number 6 pellet going 1100 fps is a #6 pellet going 1100 fps. It doesn't magically transform into something else because it came out of a bigger bore gun.

I've spent many hours patterning 12 ga, not as much as some but TONs. I never counted pellets, but I can tell you my patterns used to fall apart at 35 yards with 3.5 and 3 inch loads. I dropped back to 2 3/4 loads to hold my pattern. My little 20 holds its pattern and puts up Immpressive patterns with ammo that cost me half of what 12 ga does. I'll never go back, and if others don't want to change, that's fine with me too because demand for shells won't drive the price up, and I'll sleep fine knowing I've killed turkeys just as far and Further than any of my 12 s ever did.

[vaturkey]

 Im here to tell you folks that this year was my first year turkey hunting with a 20 ga. I bought a Benelli M2 20 & with a Sumtoy choke & Fed HW 7's it will dump a gobbler just as good as a 12 ga. will. Lightweight , hardly no recoil, & a true pleasure to shoot. I stll have 5 or 6 12 ga. turkey guns but to be honest I really dont know if I will hunt with them. I really thought I would be under gunned using a 20 but by no means is that the case. I am  truely a firm believer in the 20 Ga.

  vaturkey   

[IowaGobblers]

Talking to my old man about this debate and he is very traditional and set on the 12. I like the sound of what you guys are saying but my dad did have one big hang up. He is stuck on the more bb's you get in the 12 ga.loads over the 20.  What do you guys have on that topic?

[gophert]

Talking to my old man about this debate and he is very traditional and set on the 12. I like the sound of what you guys are saying but my dad did have one big hang up. He is stuck on the more bb's you get in the 12 ga.loads over the 20.  What do you guys have on that topic?

He is probably right if you shoot factory shells, but ask him how dead is 120 pellets in a 10" circle verses 200.  Either way, the benefits of a lighter, less recoil gun way out weigh an excess higher pellet count IMO.

sent from Tim's Tweaked Out Evo

[BrowningGuy88]

Talking to my old man about this debate and he is very traditional and set on the 12. I like the sound of what you guys are saying but my dad did have one big hang up. He is stuck on the more bb's you get in the 12 ga.loads over the 20.  What do you guys have on that topic?

Also, if I shoot lead 6's out of my 935 in the flavor of 3.5" 2.25 ounce loads I average 150. If I shoot Hevi 7's out of my 20 I average 165+ up to 175. Now if I shoot Hevi's or Nitro's out of the 935 that is a different story. I am in the 280 range then.

The 20 really shines with Hevi shot.

[gobblergls]

Bigger than the leap from lead to Hevi-shot 13 with a reported density of 12 g/cc is the leap from Hevi-shot 13 to almost pure tungsten shot with a density of 18 g/cc.  Pixie dust 9's  have the downrange penetration of lead #4 shot.  This enables subgauge guns to challenge the mythical superiority of 12 gauge guns shooting traditional turkey loads.   With a higher pellet count of 9s versus 4s, to duplicate the shot count of 1 oz. of 18 g/cc tungsten 9's, the load weight of #4 lead would be 2.5 oz.  The leap from Federal htl with a density of 15 g/cc to 18 g/cc tungsen shot is not as great, but it is still bigger than from lead to Hevi-shot 13.  HTL in any density has changed the game.

[FullChoke]

In order to be able to craft a suitable answer for your dad, we need to know how "old school" he actually is. Does he shoot lead shot only? What size shot pellets does he usually shoot? How many ounces of shot are in the shells that he shoots? Does he use a shotgun with interchangeable chokes? Has he patterned his gun with the same shells that he hunts with? What is his actual pellet count in a 10" and a 20" diameter circle at 40 yards?

Relying solely on having more pellets in a shell will let you down when the time comes for you to pull the trigger.

FC

[IowaGobblers]

He shoots copper plated lead in 3 in 1 7/8 oz shot  #6's out of a bps with interchangeable chokes (he does have a tightwad choke) and he does really pattern his gun just sights in his red dot with the same loads he hunts with

[FullChoke]

I used that same gun, gauge and load as your dad for many years. I killed and wounded many birds with it. I have patterned several choke tubes and loads combinations through it, so I am talking from my own personal experience here.

I am going to guess that he is seeing a pattern with 130-140 pellets in a 10" circle at a taped 40 yards with that combination. This is what I would typically get on a good day at the gun range. 

Ironically, this is the same pellet count that I get with my 870 20 gauge shooting 1.5 ounces of Federal Heavyweight #7s with a Remington Super Full choke tube. Performance, where it really counts, is almost a total match between the two. (Actually, the Hwt 7's carry lethal foot/pounds of energy further downrange than #6 lead, and I won't even bring up TSS 9's).

So, with that being somewhat equal enough in the pellet department, what are the actual advantages of the 20 gauge over a 12 gauge? Weight, maneuverability, felt recoil and cost of gun and shells. The ammunition, gun and choke tube manufacturers have all stepped up to the 20 gauge plate and are putting out products that are able to deliver continually better performance and are reasonably priced.

Honestly, I felt a twinge of sadness when I decided to switch from my BPS 12 gauge to my Rem 870 20 gauge. I got over it pretty quickly a couple of years ago when I shot my first gobbler on opening day here in MS with the 20. It knocked that bad boy over backwards into a ditch at a distance of 37 paces. I was completely convinced from that day forward that there was a better way, and I have been in it ever since!

Tell your Dad that we will welcome him into the fold with open arms and free flowing first-hand information to help make his transition successful. We can't help him with that twinge of sadness though.

Good luck. 

FullChoke

[IowaGobblers]

Thanks for all the great info we are strongly considering it and he hes not convinced I think im gonna get 1!

[Sand Man]

FWIW, my dad was from the same old school train of thought.  He used to turkey hunt with a 32" full barrel 12ga before the 'ol shoulder breaking 835 came out with the 24" interchangable choke 3.5" 12ga.  He sent that gun off more times than I can count tweaking it and having chokes developed for his lead shells.  This was long before the HTL shells came out. Then he moved to the HTL shells and have a choke worked up for the gun.

I'll never forget him laughing at me about a 20ga with this TSS #9 crap as he called it.

Guess what.  3 turkey kills in front of him with a 21" barrel 870 20ga pushing TSS #9's has him now carrying one.  His 835 hasn't been in the turkey woods in 3 years.  He's a believer now.

[FL-Boss]

my dad (70)  and all the old school are the same way.  I told him I shoot #7's and he thought I was crazy.  He was thinking dove shot #7 like most do.    When they think about turkey shot they think #4 or #5 with a good old flush full choke.   They don't know anything about these new HEVI loads and  chokes of today..

[IowaGobblers]

My dad thinks that shooting HW #7's will give up a lot of range/won't transfer enough energy down range.  How do I explain this?

[BrowningGuy88]

My dad thinks that shooting HW #7's will give up a lot of range/won't transfer enough energy down range.  How do I explain this?

You crush a tom at 40 in front of him with the shells.

[gobblergls]

My dad thinks that shooting HW #7's will give up a lot of range/won't transfer enough energy down range.  How do I explain this?

Try this:  Most know that when shooting steel shot, one must go to a larger shot to have the effective range of lead shot which is much denser than steel shot of the same size.  The opposite is true of HTL.  Assuming same fps at muzzle, because it  is significantly denser than lead, the shift goes in the other direction:  Smaller HTL accomplishes the same energy downrange as does larger lead shot, but with the added feature of more pellets in the load compared with the same load (weight)  in lead.