10" counts vs. knock down power

[BlakeJ]

With all this rage on the massive pellet counts people are getting with #7s, I'm wondering how much knock down power you are giving up not going with 4s or 5s? Not trying to start any arguments, but i would think punching holes in paper is different than a turkey head. Have there been any studies done on the kinetic energy of different pellet sizes at different distances?

[R AJ]

Oh yes and plenty of charts , etc. in archives . The Fed HW #7s are much heavier than lead shot so the #7 is equal to or greater than a #5 lead shot going at the same speed and penetration is greater due to a smaller surface area .

Turkeys look like they are being slammed when these loads hit them.

You are not being forced to use smaller shot but when shooting these loads it just makes sense.

[Skeeterbait]

The concept of "knock down power" with tiny shot is really a falacy.  What small shot does is penetrate organs and bone.  It can break some bone but it is too small to impart shock into organs, thus no "knock down power".  It causes tissue damage thru penetration, not shock.

Now a number 7 HTL pellet weighs about what a lead 5 pellet does.  A HTL 6 pellet weighs about what a lead 4 pellet does.  However the smaller shot has less wind resistance in flight.  Therefore they carry equal or more speed at a given distance than their larger equivilent weight lead pellet.  The smaller pellet also penetrates better because it has less resistance due to its smaller size but equal weight.  Add to that the number of pellets in an equal weight load and you are likely to get a 3 to 1 increase in hits with the smaller HTL shot.  On top of that, HTL shot is harder, does not deform as bad in the barrel, has less wind resistance, so it flies truer resulting in tighter patterns.  All this means equal or better penetration and higher number of wound channels and penetrated bones.

There is no escaping that HTL outperforms lead.

[BlakeJ]

I'm talking about comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Throwing lead out of the argument totally, knock down power of different sized Hevi 13 or heavyweight loads.

[Skeeterbait]

OK, didn't realize you were talking about all HTL shot.  I shoot 6 because I prefer Winchester and they don't make 7.  But the same issues apply.  Most 6 HTL pass clean thru head and necks.  So would a 5 or 4 of course.  They are not being stopped therefore they are not imparting much energy into tissue, but they are making wound channels.  You can argue the larger shot would make slightly larger wound channels but I can argue the smaller shot are making more wound channels and because of the higher numbers, are more likely to find something significant.  Lets face it, to anchor a turkey where it is, you have to penetrate skull and neck bones.  I prefer higher number of hits to ensure more find these small vital targets.

[chatterbox]

OK, didn't realize you were talking about all HTL shot.  I shoot 6 because I prefer Winchester and they don't make 7.  But the same issues apply.  Most 6 HTL pass clean thru head and necks.  So would a 5 or 4 of course.  They are not being stopped therefore they are not imparting much energy into tissue, but they are making wound channels.  You can argue the larger shot would make slightly larger wound channels but I can argue the smaller shot are making more wound channels and because of the higher numbers, are more likely to find something significant.  Lets face it, to anchor a turkey where it is, you have to penetrate skull and neck bones.  I prefer higher number of hits to ensure more find these small vital targets.

Skeeter is 100% correct. With #6 HTL, there is no need for larger HTL shot. Plenty of knockdown with those 6's!

[Tom Foolery]

The birds I have seen smoked with Hevi13 #7's couldn't have been knocked down any harder or any deader with 4, 5, or 6 shot.  Some under 40 and some over 40 and all looked like they got kicked in the face by a angry donkey.  Shot 1 bird with it's right side facing me and when cleaning found that the pellets had broken the left wing, no need to shoot heavier.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Knockdown power has nothing to do with killing turkeys.  It's all due to pattern density and shot penetration.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I myself would take these much denser 7 shot patterns below over any less denser larger shot pattern anyday.  Both are gonna kill turkeys, but I'd bet money the 6's won't kill them any deader than what these would.   

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

When Hevi-13 7's do this kind of damage at a little over 40yds, what more could a person ask for? 

[davisd9]

I myself would take these much denser 7 shot patterns below over any less denser larger shot pattern anyday.  Both are gonna kill turkeys, but I'd bet money the 6's won't kill them any deader than what these would.   

Those 7s will not kill them any deader than the 6s either.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I don't know dead is dead.  But what I do know is that I can get more vital hits with the 7's than the 6's.  For every hit that most guys can get with a 6 load of Hevi-13, I can typically put a littler over 60% more shot in that area if you do the math.  Now if that ain't overkill I don't know what is.  Most guys do good to even get 220 shot with 6's in a 10" at 40yds with a Hevi-13 load.  I can typically put 350 with these loads I currently have.  Yep both will kill.  But 7's will be more nastier regardless if the 6's do penenetrate slightly better.  Heck I shot plum through the head and neck on that bird above that was 40yds plus.  And that was with my 870 and 3" load.  Imagine what the 835 and the 3.5" load of 7's would have looked like. 

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

I think you centered that bird above.

[chatterbox]

I can tell you this. When I hit the target board at 40 yards with my Win XRHD, it gets knocked right over.
Any shell clocking in at over 1200 FPS is gonna do some serious damage, especially if it's HTL. 

[davisd9]

I don't know dead is dead.  But what I do know is that I can get more vital hits with the 7's than the 6's.  For every hit that most guys can get with a 6 load of Hevi-13, I can typically put a littler over 60% more shot in that area if you do the math.  Now if that ain't overkill I don't know what is.  Most guys do good to even get 220 shot with 6's in a 10" at 40yds with a Hevi-13 load.  I can typically put 350 with these loads I currently have.  Yep both will kill.  But 7's will be more nastier regardless if the 6's do penenetrate slightly better.  Heck I shot plum through the head and neck on that bird above that was 40yds plus above.  And that was with my 870 and 3" load.  Imagine what the 835 and the 3.5" load of 7's would have looked like.

We have been respectfully disagreeing on this for a while hevi and like I have told you 7s will kill, but they are just are not for my hunting style. You have very impressive patterns, but cardboard is not what I like seeing in pictures.

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