Harvesting hens

[Devastator]

Does anybody shoot doe's during deer season??? Same thing no?

glad someone mentioned that.geesh pa ranks up there with turkey population and we shoot hen's.with some pretty tough winters!

[stinkpickle]

Does anybody shoot doe's during deer season??? Same thing no?

Mortality rates are much different between deer and turkeys.

[Skeeterbait]

Does anybody shoot doe's during deer season??? Same thing no?

Mortality rates are much different between deer and turkeys.

I don't agree with shooting so many does either, it is based more on consessions to insurance companies and farmer's coops than sound science, but that is a discussion for another time.

Coons, possums, crows don't eat deer eggs,  They do however distroy many turkey nests.  Poults are killed by hawks as well as larger predators.  All it takes is widespread stormy weather at the end of the nesting season to wipe out a full year's recruitement of turkeys in an area,  So no... it's not anywhere near the same thing.

[troutfisher13111]

Does anybody shoot doe's during deer season??? Same thing no?

I do, NY doesn't give out enough buck tags to feed my family.

[Mark K]

Thank you Skeeterbait!! Our yankee friends just don't understand!

[Hooksfan]

The killing of bearded hens only aside, states that do not allow hens to be killed, rank the highest
in overall turkey numbers.

It's a fact, look it up.

HC

I'm not exactly sure which statistical formula you are using to make that argument, but according to the NWTF Top Ten States list, four of the top five as of 2009 allowed for the killing of hens in their Fall Seasons and 7 of the top ten.
I have hunted 5 of those top ten states and four of them allowed the killing of hens in the fall.  But again, even that list is subjective.  I have no idea how Alabama ranks number one above Texas, Kansas, and Missouri and I also have no idea how Nebraska didn't even make the list....and yes, I have hunted them all.

[troutfisher13111]

Does anybody shoot doe's during deer season??? Same thing no?

Mortality rates are much different between deer and turkeys.

I don't agree with shooting so many does either, it is based more on consessions to insurance companies and farmer's coops than sound science, but that is a discussion for another time

I believe that's more of an opinion than fact. I have friends that work for the NY dec and have never heard of insurance companies or farmers playing part in the number of doe permits giving out.

As far as shooting hens, if its controlled I don't see it hurting the population much. Nature has its own ways of controlling things and any hens that might be shot during the fall could possibly keep others alive during the winter. A giving area can only support so much of any animal. I understand that natural disasters and the like can greatly lower a flock, but I bet the poult survival rate grows during the following years. Minus extreme situations, mother nature can take care of itself and our states environmental conservation departments do a pretty good job as well. If numbers get too low, harvest rates are adjusted.

[Neill_Prater]

Missouri has offered a fall season for over 30 years that I'm aware of, in most counties, but it has never really become popular, despite all the efforts of the Conservation Department to make it so, including increasing the number of open days and the reduction of tag price in comparison to Spring tags. I've never quite figured this one out. They seemingly go out of their way to try and increase the fall harvest, which includes hens, but have never budged from the two bird Spring limit, which consists almost entirely of gobblers (any bearded bird is legal). I haven't even purchased fall tags for the past few years, as I just don't enjoy the fall hunting as much, and if I did go, would target gobblers as I just get absolutely no "kick" out of shooting a hen.

I would support going to a three bird limit in the Spring, or a three bird limit per year, spring and fall combined, but I don't see that ever happening.

As for the issue of too many hens, I've hunted areas with few turkeys, and areas with many turkeys. For myself, it is more fun knowing there are lots of birds, even if a large percentage of those are hens. Every time I see a hen in the spring, I visualize a couple of two year old gobblers the year after next. Neill

[Hooksfan]

Neill,
For my personal preferences, I would trade a Missouri Fall season for being able to take three in the Spring in a heartbeat.
But we both know that is never going to happen.  Also, don't forget about the one bird/first week restriction in the Spring versus the two birds any time allowed in the fall or......killing four legally in one day in the Fall if you filled both shotgun and archery tags in the same day.  Try to figure that one out.

But...I will stick to my guns in this argument that killing hens in the fall will have no significant impact on turkey numbers.

[Kylongspur88]

I totally agree that killing hens can have a negative impact on populations. I really disagree with high bag limits in the fall. But in KY fall turkey just doesn't see the amount of pressure that spring does. I don't feel bad about killing a fall hen in a high population area. If there was a poor hatch or some other issue I would give it a rest. Busting up a flock and calling birds back in is a blast, but hunters and wild life departments have to be cognizant of turkey numbers and set season and limits accordingly.

[woodchip]

I'll kill hens all day long during the Fall here in Ky.  If it's legal I'll shoot it.  I mostly take them with a bow in the Fall.

[troutfisher13111]

But in KY fall turkey just doesn't see the amount of pressure that spring does.

This is key. DEC knows this and that's why there are the bag limits that exist. If everyone started fall hunting and shooting hens, my guess is the bag limits and seasons would change. Expected hunter participation is part of how the DEC sets its rules.

[WildTigerTrout]

I have no problem taking a fall hen here in NC Pennsylvania. Fall turkey hunting has a long tradition here.

[Devastator]

POPULATION ESTIMATES via Turkey and Turkey Hunting 2011 Spring Turkey hunting Guide
1.Texas
pop:600,000
fall hunting:yes,varies by county.
all seasons combined limit of 4,all of which can be of either sex in the fall.

2.Alabama
pop:500,000
fall hunting:no

3.Missouri
pop:460,000
fall hunting:yes,1 bird either sex.

4.Pennsylvania
pop:335,000
fall hunting:yes,1 bird either sex.

5.Wisconsin
pop:320,000
fall hunting:yes,1 fall turkey either sex in all counties.
leftover permits sold on first come first basis on leftover permits.

6.Georgia
pop:300,000
fall hunting:no

7.Tennessee
pop:300,000
fall hunting:yes,bag limit varies by county,with up to 6 permits
good for either sex in certain counties.

8.New York
pop:250,000
fall hunting:yes,either sex,bag limit varies by county.

9.Florida
pop:250,000
fall hunting:yes,bag limit of 2,both of which must be bearded.

10.California
pop:240,000
fall hunting:yes,1 either sex.


2010 SPRING HARVEST ESTIMATES

1.Wisconsin-47,539  fall season,yes
2.Pennsylvania-42,763 fall season,yes
3.Missouri-42,253 fall season,yes
4.Michigan-41,000 fall season,yes
5.Oklahoma-37,407 fall season,yes
6.Tennessee-36,781 fall season,yes
7.Alabama-36,600 fall season,no
8.Kentucky-36,094 fall season,yes
9.Kansas-33,350 fall season,yes
10.Georgia-27,323 fall season,no

IM not typeing any more LOLOLOL

[guesswho]

Key word being estimates.   A couple questions I'd like to know the answer to.

1.  Who counts all these turkey's and how?   

2.  When do they count them?  A big difference in populations in April vs. say October, do all the states estimate at the same time?

3.  How do you track number of birds killed with out a tagging system?  Like AL/GA.

There's no way of knowing how many turkeys are in a certain county, let alone a whole state. 

Again I don't care one way or the other about killing hen's, I'm not shooting hens even if we had a fall season, but if anyone want's to, then have fun.  But to say shooting hen's won't effect the population is wishful thinking.  I need to figure out how to apply that logic to my bank accounts.   Maybe if I only spent dollar bills and coins it wouldn't effect my balance.