"Call shy" and "Educated" - Fact or Fiction?

[guesswho]

  Probably so!

[Shotgun]

WHy I got you one here.  WHat's your tip for killing a gobbler that will gobble a few times on the roost and then shuts up when he flies down?

[hoyt]

Well, on hard pressured land,  if turkeys are so stupid as to not know something is going on after seeing and hearing so many hunters walking around making turkey noises...a lot of turkey hunters need to take some feathers out of their hats.

[WildTigerTrout]

WHy I got you one here.  WHat's your tip for killing a gobbler that will gobble a few times on the roost and then shuts up when he flies down?

He more than likely has hens close by. Return later in the morning after the hens have left him and he may be getting lonesome.

[guesswho]

WHy I got you one here.  WHat's your tip for killing a gobbler that will gobble a few times on the roost and then shuts up when he flies down?

My tip would be to pm me the gps coords so I can check out the situation, then I'll pm you a game plan.

[Shotgun]

WHy I got you one here.  WHat's your tip for killing a gobbler that will gobble a few times on the roost and then shuts up when he flies down?

My tip would be to pm me the gps coords so I can check out the situation, then I'll pm you a game plan.

[drenalinld]

Labels used to describe Henned up birds.

[Flyrodder]

Call shy and educated are a real condition but the next day he may run over you.
Flyrodder

[Gooserbat]

Well, on hard pressured land,  if turkeys are so stupid as to not know something is going on after seeing and hearing so many hunters walking around making turkey noises...a lot of turkey hunters need to take some feathers out of their hats.

Good post and true. IMO there are call shy and educated turkeys. Mostly due to conditioning from hunting pressure. Public land has more of it in my experience. A lot of subordinate tom behavior is blamed on call shy and education though. On average the difference in a 2 year old tom and a 3 year old tom is about as drastic as the difference in a 1.5 year old buck and a 3.5 IMO. I know a lot of fellows who have no trouble killing big old toms on low pressured prime land but can't cut a feather on well hunted public land. Ditto for deer. They are as smart as you make them and when you think you know it all about them you are fixing to be humbled.

What he said.  I can take some of my buddies who only hunt private land to some hard hunted areas here in OK and they can't kill squat. 

[bushwhacker]

I think it's a bunch of bull. I hunt only public land, and I have hunted the same turkeys day after day and they will do the same things every morning. Fly down and shut up, gobble his brains out until 7:30 then shut up, Gobble every breath while walking away then shut up. Then you go back one morning and he pitches down and walks right in. Or you go back at 11:00 and strike a call and he answers you and you make another call and he tries committing suicide while running to you. Boys it's all about the time of season. When he answers you but won't come closer more likely than not he has hens and has no reason to come to your party unless he feels that another tom is gonna get to you first. Now i do think that if you call one up and blaze away at him and he runs off with powder burns, that he is going to be tougher to kill but not unkillable. Just need a different approach the next time. I have missed turkeys and they run to the next hillside and go back to gobbling, crossed over to him and he comes right in. I think every bird is different and they will all act different to each scenario, but i dont think they get call shy, if they did there wouldn't be anymore turkeys because they wouldn't ever go to a hen and breed, hens call all day every day. I agree with pressure to an extent but not call shy.

[jakebird]

I think it was Lovett Williams that said he doesnt believe birds ever get "call shy."They depend on their vocalizations to communicate and if they became call shy, they'd never breed. More so, they become hunter shy. They notice if we are intruding into their world, esp if they had to dodge a load of shot. As long as ur calls sound passably realistic, and u call in natural tones and cadences, turkeys will believe you are another turkey. They simply lack the ability to rationalize it any further, but they will definitely get spooky due to human presence in the woods. JM2C

[talltines]

I have observed Toms that I have got into position on and could visually see out in a field and as soon as I start calling they would run the other direction.  This was with suttle calling even.  Any conclusions to that scenario?

[redleg06]

I have observed Toms that I have got into position on and could visually see out in a field and as soon as I start calling they would run the other direction.  This was with suttle calling even.  Any conclusions to that scenario?

Without hearing you call it's tough to say....

In all seriousness, it could depend on the particular bird. Pecking order has quite a bit to do with how birds live their lives and I've seen gobblers be so whipped by other gobblers that they constantly looked like they were looking over their shoulder and at the first sound of another male turkey, they were out of there. Not saying you were doing this but some folks hen calls can have more characteristics of a Gobblers vocalizations when yelping or clucking... Again, it's hard to say without being there but it could be that your cadence (gobblers seem to be slower cadence and have a little deeper pitch that's hard to describe) made him think he was intruding on another, more dominant, tom.

The other this is that if you can see them, they can usually see you too.  He may have saw something he didnt like and gone the other direction.

[jyoung]

This is a great thread! I must say I see both sides of the fence here.  But just like somebody else said, when you think you have it all figured out, get ready to be humbled again.  That's why I love this sport!  You actually have to get involved and put yourself both mentally and physically in the situation.  I've heard many ole timers compare turkey hunt to playing a game of chess.  Always trying to consider two or three plays ahead.  I do know that the more information you know about the turkeys you hunt the better.

Jonathan

[GobbleNut]

I always look forward to this discussion on just about every forum,..every spring.  ...Same old stuff... real turkey calling, fake turkey calling,..good callers, bad callers,...heavy pressure, light pressure,...public land birds, private land birds,...yada, yada, yada,...on and on and on.  It's make for great conversation, discussion, and opinion.

At some point, though, all of it has to be based on FACT.  ...And here, once again, are the facts.  All organisms, including turkeys, can be "conditioned", if you will, to respond in certain ways to certain stimuli.  That conditioning can be based on positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement.  

In short, a turkey can and will "learn" to associate turkey calling with danger if it has enough negative encounters or experiences with "unconfirmed" turkey calling that it hears.  The more a turkey is hunted and experiences negative consequences when it approaches a turkey-like sound, the more likely it will be to stop approaching turkey-like sounds, whether they are articial or real,...unless there are other positive stimuli involved which override that individual turkey's fear of the consequences of approaching a turkey-like sound.  

To suggest that turkeys do not have the brain-capacity to learn to associate any turkey calling with danger, and therefore avoid it, is, simply put, going against the overwhelming evidence of scientific fact.  Period.  The End.