Obama administration shuts down Gibson guitars

[Struttinhusker]

I think you may have misconstrued what I was trying to say.  I thought I said that you had been respectful and had NOT demonized anyone on your posts and that you have no control over what others say in the thread.  And what a thread about jobs and the economy has to do with gays baffles me.  I respect your religious beliefs and political beliefs, but I don't see that as an excuse to unload on someone who may have different beliefs.  This thread had nothing  to do with gay marriage or DADT.  Maybe it all does come down to God, Guns, and Gays.  Again, I apologize if I gave you the impression you were demonizing anybody.  That is not what I meant to say.  But now I am not so sure.  This exchange does show why the politics in this country is in the state it's in.  There's a lot of talk on this site about dictatorships and I guess one point of view is all that is allowed on this site.  Message received.

[Struttinhusker]

Apologies to Lightsoutcalls.  I can make excuses that it was a senior moment or that I just can't read or that I don't pay close enough attention.  But the fact is the post to which I last responded was NOT from Lightoutcalls.  I am relieved and I stand by my respect for him and his posts.

[Struttinhusker]

I am obviously out of my league and my comfort zone.  I got it from Lightsoutcalls and a followup.  I guess that comes with being a newbie.  I am still wondering what gays had to do with the original discussion.

[stinkpickle]

I am obviously out of my league and my comfort zone.  I got it from Lightsoutcalls and a followup.  I guess that comes with being a newbie.  I am still wondering what gays had to do with the original discussion.

Well, everyone knows that getting wood from India is just plain gay.   

[mcgruff1533]

I think the main point that Wendell (lightsoutcalls) was trying to convey is that shutting down a business in this economy is akin to shooting oneself in the foot.

Our Nation's unemployment rate is quite high, and is even higher in certain states/ regions.    We need everyone working who is capable of working.    By forcing Gibson Guitars to close their doors, it just put countless employees out in the cold and they will become yet a further burden on the Unemployment System.

As the link in the OP said, Gibson Guitars did not violate any laws of the United States and was acting in good faith when purchasing materials from India.     The violated law in question is an Indian law that is being enforced by the US Federal Government without even a request from the Indian Government.

To quote a buzzword frequently used by the Obama administration, such actions are "Unprecedented".      I cannot think back of a single instance where the US Federal Government has enforced the law of a foreign land against a domestic, small business that was not in violation of any local or Federal laws.

[Old Gobbler]

Not trying to inflame opinions but point out the obvious -

Our government  "good or bad " has in the way  past, and well into the foreseeable  future regulated , run off or shut down companies for what ever reason - and meanwhile overseas the same product can be made in clear violation of numerous treaties and EPA standards and sold right here on the shelves in big block stores - I think this has been going on for well over 20 years now


China=do you think for one moment that the country that is the biggest illegal importer of Rhinoceros horns  and bear claws is going to raid a violin or guitar factory to make some granola eating geek from greenpeace happy- think again , they cant even keep the baby formula in china safe - we just created 500 new jobs in China , and placed 500+ US  families on welfare

end result is now ---
1) US Jobs lost
2) China Jobs created
3) EPA or whatever governing busybody agency cannot or will not regulate what goes on in China


 

[Struttinhusker]

One more attempt to make my position clear.  I have no quarrels with the original post.  It was newsworthy and because of the woods of interest to members of this site.  We don't know that much about it, but there is no doubt it has a negative effect on a lot of workers.

I did object to some of the inflammatory comments that are sometimes made on this site about the POTUS.  I think they would be more appropriate on one of the hundreds, if not thousands, of political sites that print that kind of thing.  But everyone has the freedom of speech to say just about anything anywhere - including me.

Lightsoutcalls seemed to think I was saying that he demonized people when I was trying to say that he was one of the ones who did not do that.  Others, over whom he has absolutely no control, might do that on a thread he started.  I must have not made that clear in responding to what I thought was a compliment about my first post because I got a long response, much of which had to do with gays.  I apologize if I did not make myself clear.  I did not say you demonize anyone.  Some on this site do.

I hope I have made myself clear.

[savduck]

Lightsoutcalls - Thanks.  I am the proud owner of one of your glass calls.  I just wanted to make the point that demonizing anyone is not patriotic, nor is it Christian.  It is something you do not do in your posts and you have no control over where the thread leads.  I also wanted to make the point that no one is going to get elected if he or she doesn't make the case to people who might be considered moderate or independent, like me.

Well, Im sorry to have offended, so this should make you happy

Im gonna be Christian and Patriotic all with this post. Please Pray for Obama, Psalms 109:8




























Psalms 109:8-" Let his days be few and brief, And let others step forward to replace him"

[lightsoutcalls]

Struttinhusker,
   My post was not intended as an attack on you personally.  I was not offended by your post, nor did I think you were saying that I demonized obama.  I respectfully disagree with some of your points and was simply expressing my views on the current administration AND the state of society in general.  I am not so naive as to think that one man, even the president of the United States could pull off all of the things stated under his own power.  Let me try to illustrate it...
   Our country was founded on Judeo Christian values.  This is historical fact and can easily be proven by examining a number of our founding documents and historical writings of the period.  Even until the 1950's (which was a decade before my time) there was clearly a much more innocent overall presentation of society.  A good way to get a feel for that is to watch some of the TV programs of the day.  No, that is not a be all/end all way to judge the heartbeat of a nation, but gives a feel for what was considered acceptable for the day.  Since that time, this country has been on a downward spiral.  The longer we go, the faster and steeper the spiral becomes. 
   Have you ever been to the ocean?  Sometimes the waves may appear gentle and hypnotic.  A person can stand and admire the rhythmic ebb and flow of the current.  Standing knee deep in the water, you feel some force of the waves as they roll to the shore, then go back out to their source.  If you go further out, you might feel the force of the water increasing.  Once you get out where your feet don't touch, you might continue to feel the force of the water, but you have no bearing to base the strength on, since your feet no longer anchor you to solid ground.  If you continue to be caught up by the movement of the water without attention to the danger you are in, you may soon find yourself so far from land that you no longer have a way to get back.
   Society is in an undercurrent, towing this nation to sea (figuratively).  Without recognizing this, we run the risk of getting caught in a rip current.  That is a force greater than the strength of resistance.  If you or I got caught in a rip current, literally, it would require the strength and force of one greater than ourselves to get us out of it.  The leadership of our nation, not one man, not one party, is pulling us under.  Yes, the original post was specifically about one incident related to financial issues and the economy.  In reality, the troubles of this country are much broader and much deeper than a number of employees of one company being put out of work temporarily and assets of a company being seized. 
   It is very easy to get caught up in pointing fingers and condemning individuals or even political parties.  In reality, we live in a society that hates the principles and ideals that this nation was founded on.  Their desire for personal gain far outweighs their sense of right and wrong.  Their selfishness and greed for money and power puts them in direct conflict with the values of our founding fathers.  Those great men recognized their limitations, as well as the limitations that should be on government.  They recognized that their success or failure was directly tied to their dependence on God or lack therof.  (Yep, I just said it.  I fought it as long as I could, but the truth is the truth.)  I'm not trying to elevate or condemn anyone for their beliefs.  The fact is, this nation was founded on Godly principals and was made great by observing and following them.  The undercurrent of a "me" society has eroded the values and greatness of this country.  No doubt the U.S. is still ahead of most of the rest of the world and has great potential, but greatness will not be restored by men (or women) who want to play politics and expand their own reaches for power.  It will only come when a people recognizes the current that is dragging them away from a solid foundation. 

   These are my views and may not represent the views of the forum owners, moderators or members.  I apologize for taking the original post in a different direction, and if these words have offended anyone personally, I apologize for the offense.  I do not, however, apologize for holding these views and believing them with all of my heart.  I love this country, but I hate what is being done to it.

[Struttinhusker]

I think we agree way more than we disagree.  I am old enough to remember the fifties.  For some groups, they were not as innocent as they were for others.  I am a Lutheran and not a fundamentalist or evangelical and may be a little more uncomfortable with the role of religion in the government.  But it is difficult to disagree with most of what you say, which I believed when I first got into this.  My only objection was that the tone of some of the jokes and comments about the President are not going to help anyone begin to solve all the problems you so eloquently describe.  I think we have driven this topic into the ground about as deeply as it will go.

[Turkey Trot]

As the link in the OP said, Gibson Guitars did not violate any laws of the United States and was acting in good faith when purchasing materials from India.     The violated law in question is an Indian law that is being enforced by the US Federal Government without even a request from the Indian Government.

To quote a buzzword frequently used by the Obama administration, such actions are "Unprecedented".      I cannot think back of a single instance where the US Federal Government has enforced the law of a foreign land against a domestic, small business that was not in violation of any local or Federal laws.

I believe that if you look into it further, the legal issues involved arise under the Convention On International Trade In Endangered Species (CITES).  The US is a party to the treaty and there is implementing legislation, and USFWS has enforcement jurisdiction.  If you go abroad hunting and want to being capes and horns back, the law applies to that activity.

The fact is, about any wood can get certified.  I represent a foreign concern based in Malaysia with operations in Indonesia and S. America that ships exotic hardwood flooring into Canada and the US.  There are ways to commit fraud for the certification and it is done.

The sensible question is whether USFWS should be spending money on raids and approaching the issue as it did.  The wood came into the country and presumably cleared customs.  It was not a smuggling operation per se, and there is some indication that the wood was certified.  There is a less expensive and more lighthanded approach was available to USFWS, but they are trying to put on a show and make a statement.