Winchester Blindside Test..pic heavy

[fountain2]

im not exactly sure what load i shot in the xpert i tested..1 1/8 or 1 1/4..i will have to find that out though.  the black clouds are probably the patternening load for me right now, but im just a little worried bout the dern wad with its overall size..i know it works and squeezes out, but im sacred over time damage could occur.  they shoot well and kill well..no doubt.  i am still learning in the waterfowl world..i plan to "expand my horizons" more this year.  im sure it will all be a big learning process and i welcome it. 

looking at these loads have been real interesting as to see what i am shooting and what is to come in the market in the future.  the design ofthe blindside ammo, as well as the flitestopper shot, look as if it wil cause major trauma upon impact...the flitestopper more than blindside, but time will tell this season with lots of the new ammo hitting the waters.  i really wish they made a #3 or 4..the way the 2s did for me, a slightly smaller shot with more in this load would be good.

the fps is anotehr thing i am learnig about with waterfowl..300 fps seem to seperate most loads.  i saw several times while my buddy shot the hypersonic,fire coming from the bbl..telling me unburnt powder.  to him, that made them a super bad load that killed when others couldnt..wrong, but o well.  he claimed his lead went to pretty much nothing..but maybe i cant shoot good enough, cant tell, or both..but honestly i have never been able to tell with any loads from shooting doves, clays to ducks..just never able to see a fps difference.  whats yall intakee on the fps of the loads on the market?

[drenalinld]

i really wish they made a #3 or 4..the way the 2s did for me, a slightly smaller shot with more in this load would be good.
..300 fps seem to seperate most loads.  whats yall intakee on the fps of the loads on the market?

You are right #3's or 4's would be great! Don't believe advertised velocities until you verify with a chronograph. With steel, a real 300 fps difference does make a difference on those long shots.

[LBSS]

Well I've heard reports of black cloud wads being stuck in the barrel or most likely the choke. And causing a obstruction and kaboom.  But I bet with a cylinder choke they would be fine?  . Browning barrels cost to much to replace lol

[mightyjoeyoung]

Well I've heard reports of black cloud wads being stuck in the barrel or most likely the choke. And causing a obstruction and kaboom.  But I bet with a cylinder choke they would be fine?  . Browning barrels cost to much to replace lol

And those "stories" are just that...stories, usually from guys hating on BC.  The ONLY documented cases of a BC wad being involved with choke failure was with an IC black diamond strike turkey choke and that was most likely due to the bad run of steel they had on some of their chokes.  IC also recommends against using BC in their ported chokes anyways so the guy that posted that up was an idiot in the first place.  How on earth can a wad leaving the barrel at 1400+ fps get stuck in the barrel of a shotgun unless there was something in the barrel already??!!  Fountain, I wouldn't worry one little bit about the wad being "overbore" as you put it.  I have shot probably a full case of BC waterfowl loads through my Benelli,my 870 and my other 835 with absolutely ZERO issues.  the big thing is to not shoot BC through a wad stripping type choke as you can get palstic build up and stripping the wad away destroys how its supposed to work in the first place.  The flight control wad is designed to be choke non-specific and will not respond to different constrictions like the other wads in other loads will.  Shoot a choke for the size shot, not for the wad and you'll be just fine.  And don't let one internet hater try to bs you about the BC wads getting stuck in your barrel!  Total bunk and miss information is all that is!  I have waterfowl hunted for the better part of 3 decades, and have seen gimmick after gimmick come and go and the BC ammo is no gimmick.  The only thing I can say to be carefull about is you might not wana use it if your birds are decoying VERY CLOSE as you do run the risk of blowing a bird up!  Lol. I made the mistake of loading some 3 1/2" BC #2s ladst year for the early goose season and the first bird I shot was back pedaling in the deeks at about 15 feet...got behind him and put an orange sized hole right through him!  I retrived the wad from the bird and there were still a few pellts in the wad mixed in with all the gore...nasty!!

[savduck]

There have been documented cases of BC failures, but most of them involved the incorrect style of choke being used. I have shot  5 cases of BC 3s and BBs through my stoeger and beretta shooting terror 700, 665 and factory Mod and Improved in the last 3 years. They only issue that I have had is that they will hang up the interia system on the stoeger from time to time. It has also happened in my buddies stoeger. We think the BCs are slightly longer... the cheaper experts, remingtons,  and rios cycle through no sweat. I have had zero issues with BC out of my beretta, and no other issues other than the cycling issue with the stoeger.


When it comes to speed of the steel. I have shot the so called "high velocity" steel by remington, winchester, kent, and I also had some remington made hevi shot 6s going 1600fps exclusive to Cabelas. They all suck for me. I shot a lot of wasted money into the air those seasons. Several of my duck hunting buddies say the same, we get in this conversation every duck season. A group of us have found for us...the FPS that we like and shoots the best is between 1250 to 1450 fps with between 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 oz loads in 3 inch.

[mightyjoeyoung]

I just spent 3 hours (yeah, I know) looking for documented cases of BC wads damaging barrels/guns/chokes.  I found 4...and those were ALL cases where the choke was either a wad stripping choke (which you aren't supposed to use) and the muzzle had become blocked with wad plastic causing a catastophic pressure spike or where the choke had come loose (as is common shooting steel loads) and the shot charge had blown the choke out of the gun which could happen with ANY steel load.  Not one case where the BC load could actually be called "at fault"...not one.  A squib load or a double thrown charge is a different thing all together and can happen to any factory load when the powder hoppers are low or over-filled and stick, throwing a light powder charge or get double thrown when somebody pauses the machines for whatever reason.  I had something similar happen to me personally about 15 years ago with a Remington 1 1/4 ounce #4 load one day hunting crows.  At the shot all I heard was a PINGGGGG in my ears and the barrel was blown about 10 feet from me and I when I came to my senses, my buddy had this look of WTF just happened??!! on his face.  I went to brush my self off and felt this sharp thing sticking out of my jacket.  The reciever exploded, throwing a chunck of metal into the center of my breast bone basically stapling my jacket to my chest.  My right arm was peppered pretty goos and my left hand/arm ached for days from having the barrel basically yanked away from me.  That was caused by an over load or possibly double thrown charge of powder.  Remington paid my ER bills and bought me a new shotgun provided I send the mangled one in to them to examine.

[LBSS]

So can I shoot blackcloud in my non ported briley? 

[savduck]

So can I shoot blackcloud in my non ported briley?  

If it is steel approved....yes. I wouldnt shoot it if it is over a modified constriction.


Mightyjoe......everything I have found was choke related except one thing. There was some stuff on Shotgun world forum about two years ago... with the black cloud #4s. Several different guys had problems with them and gun barrells were damaged, It was the shells, not the chokes. Federal Ammunition ended up replacing several guns. There were emails and letters copied on there from Federal. They identified the issue, and it was isolated to just the #4s in a certain batch. Again, my experience has been great with them after I figured out the choke issue.

[mightyjoeyoung]

Didn't see that.  What was the damage to the barrels?  Wads shredding in the barrel and causing scorring?  Having had the "pleasure" of working in a plastics plant that made some shotgun wads, (not BC) I know that if the mix is off or an impurity compromises the plastic, it will make the plastic do all sorts of fun stuff when it cools.  I do know Federal  had a bad run of overcrimped shells a while back that would only fit in some chambers.  I don't know anybody that got any, but like you I have never had an issue with them. 

[savduck]

It was about two years ago....I remember seeing some barrels opened up and split.  It was only the #4s.

[mightyjoeyoung]

Yup...Found the chat threads on about 5 of them.  Thing is the barrel damage wasn't all just from BC.  There were some with Win., Some with other brands.  And the barrel blow outs were all cloe to the forcing cone or near the barrel ring.  The only other ones with barel end issues looked to be user error.  Most likely an under powered or double-dropped powder load for the others as I cannot see a wad getting stuck that far down the barrel when the poster with the gun in question stated he saw the shot hit low in front of a bird they were ground swatting.  I don't know...if you get a load wet and it stays wet for long enough, I don't care what sealants are on it, it can and will get moisture in the hull and can compromise the powder.  God forbid THAT MANY bad loads got out of the factory to cause that many problems!  I have had that stuff happen to me and I can tell you it is not fun!  I'm pretty sure my hearing is permanently reduced because of my incident...lucky I didn't lose a finger or worse...

[LBSS]

My briley. Is a light mod.  I want to try rem Nitro steel 1 3/4 oz #T @ 1260 fps.  If zinc plated steel and non plated shot are the same price per box would you choose the zinc?  Got alot of those standard loads I want to test.  No one ever talks about the regular stuff.  Also like to play with the hevimetal

[mightyjoeyoung]

The ONLY thing I don't like about hevi metal is that they advertise it as having hevi shot but the hevi portion of shot in the shells is the hevi duck stuff (10.1 gm/cc) and not true hevi shot. 

[savduck]

The ONLY thing I don't like about hevi metal is that they advertise it as having hevi shot but the hevi portion of shot in the shells is the hevi duck stuff (10.1 gm/cc) and not true hevi shot. 

I shoot number 3s in hevi metal, the hevi duck stuff is smaller maybe 5s or 6s than the #3 steel part of the load.....10.1g is just fine with me....like shooting a ducks with 5 or 6 lead, which is still better than steel. I like the Hevi metal too.