Diaphragm call talk

[bbcoach]

Calling applications in turkey hunting do not necessarily correlate with contest calling...although being the best caller one can be certainly can be a great benefit in the turkey woods. Conversely, being a great caller is not the "end all, be all" in that knowing when to apply certain turkey vocalizations...and conversely knowing when NOT to apply them...can be just as important.

This is my thought process as well Gobblenuts.  Sure, there are guys out there that sound and call 100x's better than me but they STILL get their butts kicked day in and day out and go home with their tails between their legs more often than not.  I want to learn the nuisances of calling in live birds to be successful in the woods.  I guess for most of us it boils down to continuing to Practice, applying things in the field to see how they work, woodsmanship and a little Luck.  Confidence, for me, plays a big part in this game as well IMO.  If you put yourself OUT There in calling situations and get responses, then continue to build on that.  If nothing happens, that maybe turkeys being turkeys, build on that.  But if you do something that sends them into the next county, then STOP and evaluate on what just happened and never do that again if possible.  Great thread Wally! 

[Wally0510]

Calling applications in turkey hunting do not necessarily correlate with contest calling...although being the best caller one can be certainly can be a great benefit in the turkey woods. Conversely, being a great caller is not the "end all, be all" in that knowing when to apply certain turkey vocalizations...and conversely knowing when NOT to apply them...can be just as important.

This is my thought process as well Gobblenuts.  Sure, there are guys out there that sound and call 100x's better than me but they STILL get their butts kicked day in and day out and go home with their tails between their legs more often than not.  I want to learn the nuisances of calling in live birds to be successful in the woods.  I guess for most of us it boils down to continuing to Practice, applying things in the field to see how they work, woodsmanship and a little Luck.  Confidence, for me, plays a big part in this game as well IMO.  If you put yourself OUT There in calling situations and get responses, then continue to build on that.  If nothing happens, that maybe turkeys being turkeys, build on that.  But if you do something that sends them into the next county, then STOP and evaluate on what just happened and never do that again if possible.  Great thread Wally!

Thanks brotha! There's a lot of great wisdom on this thread


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[Bowguy]

Excellent replies Ben and Gobblenuts.  I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here gentlemen, just trying to understand to get better!  I'm a turkey hunter and want to replicate sounds that will kill turkeys not win contests.  You guys that make your own calls and understand the nuisances of these calls can defiantly educate us.  What I am saying is when you find a call that when you pop it in your mouth and BOOM the vocalizations just pour out of you, you are like WOW, WOW!!!  BIG LIGHT comes on!  You have to ask yourself, where has this been!!  Listening to you guys, I have a long way to learning the nuisances of calling turkeys.  But what I will say, I still get it done every year in the woods not on a stage.  And for most of us, I believe this is where we want to be.  Still learning to get BETTER!  THANKS EVERYONE!

Sorry bud just have some bothersome stuff going on. Like Compton30 said there's so much to it. The only reason I mentioned stage was to show it's impossible for one call to be best at everything. Better to have at least a few with you. As you n others pointed out we often don't need best though, it'll still be easier to get desired result. Different calls will be better certain days dependent on something as simple as conditions but being able to manipulate calls properly goes a long way. IMO most guys don't practice near enough.
My apologies for my shortness last post

[bbcoach]

No problem, BG.  Sorry for the bad day or days.  As I said, just trying to wrap my head around this subject.  I've tried for years to find a mouth call that I could really have confidence in and comfortable making the sounds I wanted.  Practice, practice and practice some more but never could have the C&C until picking up the Pinhoti Purple Ghost.  I knew I was a center airflow guy and would only use ghost, v cut and batwing style calls, but the soft stuff was never there until I tried the low stretch/thinner stacked material of this call.  After the Purple ghost, I tried other thinner material and low stretch calls, and the vocabulary improved Greatly.  I have plenty to learn but my objective is to be able to call in birds not to be the Greatest on stage.  It seems the low stretch/thinner stacked material has done this for me.  I'm unsure of what the reason is but the C&C is there for me. 

[Bowguy]

No problem, BG.  Sorry for the bad day or days.  As I said, just trying to wrap my head around this subject.  I've tried for years to find a mouth call that I could really have confidence in and comfortable making the sounds I wanted.  Practice, practice and practice some more but never could have the C&C until picking up the Pinhoti Purple Ghost.  I knew I was a center airflow guy and would only use ghost, v cut and batwing style calls, but the soft stuff was never there until I tried the low stretch/thinner stacked material of this call.  After the Purple ghost, I tried other thinner material and low stretch calls, and the vocabulary improved Greatly.  I have plenty to learn but my objective is to be able to call in birds not to be the Greatest on stage.  It seems the low stretch/thinner stacked material has done this for me.  I'm unsure of what the reason is but the C&C is there for me.

You'd be surprised at how much you learn once you make them for yourself and you can adjust anything any way you like

[bbcoach]

Point taken and I understand this.  So, what I hear you saying is that, even you guys that make your own calls, it is still Trial and Error to find the right combination of reed thicknesses, stretch and cut in order to get the Preferred sound, YOUR ear is looking for.  IMO, as you guys have said, Way too much Variability.  As for us, that don't make our own calls, we pretty much have to STUMBLE onto a call that satisfies what our ears want to hear and have that confidence in, along with many hours of Practice.

[GobbleNut]

Point taken and I understand this.  So, what I hear you saying is that, even you guys that make your own calls, it is still Trial and Error to find the right combination of reed thicknesses, stretch and cut in order to get the Preferred sound, YOUR ear is looking for.  IMO, as you guys have said, Way too much Variability.  As for us, that don't make our own calls, we pretty much have to STUMBLE onto a call that satisfies what our ears want to hear and have that confidence in, along with many hours of Practice.

For me, at least, it is definitely trial and error.  I "hand-stretch" my calls and everything is "by feel"...not exactly how one maintains consistency in building calls. I get to the sound I want with ANY call I put together by modifying the reeds after-the-fact. The same can be done with any call...as long as the basic call construction fits the reed materials used.

As for those who buy calls (and end up hoping for the best), here's another conundrum I found back when I was doing that....which was a couple of decades ago.  To summarize, I would find a call that I thought was fantastic, buy more calls from the same maker of the same design, and find out that rarely did any of them match the sound of the initial call. Inspecting each of those calls, I could see there were minute variations in the reed stagger and cuts...depths and angles were not the same. Assuming the tensions of the reed materials were consistent (which there were also no guarantees), it was pretty obvious that those variations were making a difference in the sounds the calls produced.

Now, I'm not sure if those problems still exist in the call-making world, but someone would have to prove to ME that they don't. I would bet certain appendages that they do. Assuming that problem does still exist, my "broken-record" advice for those that buy from other call makers is to experiment with the calls that aren't hitting on the sounds wanted by modifying the reed/cuts yourself. As compton30 pointed out previously, you will be surprised at what very small changes in the reeds will cause in the sounds the call will produce. Sometimes the smallest of changes will make all the difference in the world. 

[Wally0510]

Point taken and I understand this.  So, what I hear you saying is that, even you guys that make your own calls, it is still Trial and Error to find the right combination of reed thicknesses, stretch and cut in order to get the Preferred sound, YOUR ear is looking for.  IMO, as you guys have said, Way too much Variability.  As for us, that don't make our own calls, we pretty much have to STUMBLE onto a call that satisfies what our ears want to hear and have that confidence in, along with many hours of Practice.

For me, at least, it is definitely trial and error.  I "hand-stretch" my calls and everything is "by feel"...not exactly how one maintains consistency in building calls. I get to the sound I want with ANY call I put together by modifying the reeds after-the-fact. The same can be done with any call...as long as the basic call construction fits the reed materials used.

As for those who buy calls (and end up hoping for the best), here's another conundrum I found back when I was doing that....which was a couple of decades ago.  To summarize, I would find a call that I thought was fantastic, buy more calls from the same maker of the same design, and find out that rarely did any of them match the sound of the initial call. Inspecting each of those calls, I could see there were minute variations in the reed stagger and cuts...depths and angles were not the same. Assuming the tensions of the reed materials were consistent (which there were also no guarantees), it was pretty obvious that those variations were making a difference in the sounds the calls produced.

Now, I'm not sure if those problems still exist in the call-making world, but someone would have to prove to ME that they don't. I would bet certain appendages that they do. Assuming that problem does still exist, my "broken-record" advice for those that buy from other call makers is to experiment with the calls that aren't hitting on the sounds wanted by modifying the reed/cuts yourself. As compton30 pointed out previously, you will be surprised at what very small changes in the reeds will cause in the sounds the call will produce. Sometimes the smallest of changes will make all the difference in the world. 

This makes a lot of sense to me. I mean call makers of every other type are always playing, and tuning over and over until they get the sound they like but diaphragm callers can't do that due to variability in mouth shapes and so on. It is reasonable to think that individuals would need to do it.


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[bbcoach]

Thanks guys!  Great Thread and Posts!  WAY to Much Variability in my Book!  This seems like a VOLCANO waiting to blow and not in a Good Way!  For you guys that Roll your own, how BIG of a TRASH Pile do you have??

[Bowguy]

I only started making calls last spring. To say I made a few and didn't like results is an understatement but once I found the ways I wanted to go, what number of reed, thickness latex, and stretch that worked I can't say I really get very many unusable calls. As Gobblenut and compton30 said you can just cut the reeds the way you need to.
Now understand the parts are absolutely minimal and it takes little time to put them together so screwing up  the first few sitting in front of the wood stove during a blizzard ain't exactly terrible.
As Gobblenut stated and I'll def attest call makers are not completely consistent. I remember buying 3 of the same call and getting one I liked. Next time none. Than I'd switch. That's awful.  You spend decent money for a call you're less likely to experiment by cutting it. Least I never did. Making em yourself is so cheap it doesn't matter. That lack of concern makes you experiment and you're likely to hit on things perfect according to you.

[GobbleNut]

Thanks guys!  Great Thread and Posts!  WAY to Much Variability in my Book!  This seems like a VOLCANO waiting to blow and not in a Good Way!  For you guys that Roll your own, how BIG of a TRASH Pile do you have??

Going back twenty years or so of making my own calls, I would have a pretty big trash pile if I stacked them all up! Fortunately, the trash pile I have each individual spring doesn't seem like a lot. 

I will say that I probably threw away at least thirty calls this spring...and still had over 200 on my desk.  Like I said before...I'm always searching for that one call that is the "holy grail" for me, so I am constantly making new "formulas" and modifying them just to see where I end up with any combination of reeds, tensions, and cuts in a call. As Bowguy stated above, at quite a bit less than a dollar a call, it doesn't seem like much is lost if we throw a few (or even a bunch) away!     

[bbcoach]

WOW Gobblenuts, if my math serves me correctly that is at least 230 calls and if they cost about a dollar for materials that's $230 dollars for Trial and Error.   And that doesn't include your time, which you probably don't factor in because you enjoy the challenge.  This is getting CRAZY!  But interesting IMO.

[Bowguy]

It's bit less than a dollar a call. This might be interesting. Idk if you're near someone bbcoach that could make a few w you and allow you to make some but I'd be interested to see your thoughts afterwards. I know I'd def be willing to offer time and help if you were near north Jersey anytime

[bbcoach]

Thanks for offering BG.  I'm in NC and we don't know what a BLIZZARD is here in Eastern NC  This is exactly why I Love this site so much.  People reaching out, offering advice and help with their knowledge and wisdom, to help other hunters with problems they may have.  GREAT FAMILY Gentlemen! 

[Bowguy]

Thanks for offering BG.  I'm in NC and we don't know what a BLIZZARD is here in Eastern NC  This is exactly why I Love this site so much.  People reaching out, offering advice and help with their knowledge and wisdom, to help other hunters with problems they may have.  GREAT FAMILY Gentlemen!

No prob bud if for some reason you ever get lost n find yourself there feel free to reach out