How do you explain the concept of TSS

[Number17]

Lalongbeard,
You can google and youtube to your heart's desire to SEE the penetration difference in penetration tests from gel to metal. The results are undeniable.
I save the wingbones from my gobblers so I see every single one of them. I've killed a pile of gobblers and I've only ever found 1 pellet had broken a wingbone.....and that was a #9.5 tss a couple of years ago on the opposite side I shot the bird on.

I agree the exaggerations and fabrications about TSS have been retold for many years, but the facts remain that it does indeed penetrate through most medium just the same as or better than a lead #5 when launched at the same velocity. So the same performance with double the amount of hits on target. The winner is clear.
And I've never heard another hunter anywhere, ever say that lead doesn't work. That statement is as ridiculous as some of the TSS exaggerations. Of course it works......just not as good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6AJz7z8NnU&ab_channel=NorthwestSpurChasers

[Number17]

  What they can claim is due to the higher density of TSS it will retain down range energy longer than 9 lead and will therefore have more pellets on target than 5s. 

Retaining downrange energy more efficiently does not translate into more pellets on target. That's an impossible conclusion....like trying to smell the color 9.

[jhoward11]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

[Tom007]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

I wish they would bring back the Old Red shell Active Turkey Penetrator loads. 3 inch shell, 2 1/4 ounce of Nickel Plated Shot. These shells patterned unreal. The knocked turkeys over. All good things get discontinued unfortunately.....I only have 4 left......

[RutnNStrutn]

Lead has always worked for me and I don't have to worry about unintentionaly killing a human hiding at 100 yards downrange.

Always a negative comment. If nothing else, you're consistent.

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[Bottomland OG]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

I wish they would bring back the Old Red shell Active Turkey Penetrator loads. 3 inch shell, 2 1/4 ounce of Nickel Plated Shot. These shells patterned unreal. The knocked turkeys over. All good things get discontinued unfortunately.....I only have 4 left......

I mentioned those in a different thread the other day. Those were my absolute favorites. I shot the #6's. Wasn't sure if anyone remembered them. The were turkey killers for sure.

[Tom007]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

I wish they would bring back the Old Red shell Active Turkey Penetrator loads. 3 inch shell, 2 1/4 ounce of Nickel Plated Shot. These shells patterned unreal. The knocked turkeys over. All good things get discontinued unfortunately.....I only have 4 left......

I mentioned those in a different thread the other day. Those were my absolute favorites. I shot the #6's. Wasn't sure if anyone remembered them. The were turkey killers for sure.

Amen my friend. The wad they used looked like a Mini Rocket ship.....

[Greg Massey]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

I wish they would bring back the Old Red shell Active Turkey Penetrator loads. 3 inch shell, 2 1/4 ounce of Nickel Plated Shot. These shells patterned unreal. The knocked turkeys over. All good things get discontinued unfortunately.....I only have 4 left......

I have a full box of 25 of these in 16 ga. and i also have a box of 10 of these in 12 ga . turkey loads

[Tom007]

Let's try this for a scenario. If someone was shooting at you from say...40-50 yards. Both guns equal and shooting the exact same pattern. Would you rather have 20 pellets coming at you or 60? Either one is going to penetrate from that distance! I think most of us would take our chances with just 20 and hope half of them go wide. TSS is popular because of more pellets down range, less open spaces on target, means less chances of misses. Which is an all around good thing for ethical hunting. Another thing to think about is...when will they outlaw lead? It will happen at some point, and then what's the options?

I wish they would bring back the Old Red shell Active Turkey Penetrator loads. 3 inch shell, 2 1/4 ounce of Nickel Plated Shot. These shells patterned unreal. The knocked turkeys over. All good things get discontinued unfortunately.....I only have 4 left......

I have a full box of 25 of these in 16 ga. and i also have a box of 10 of these in 12 ga . turkey loads

They were unreal, the best from years ago.......

[Ihuntoldschool]

Everyone keeps saying naysayers . But it's funny I don't hear anyone saying TSS doesn't work. I guess when you stick to real facts instead of fairy tales you're a naysayer.

It does come down to money.  The ammo manufacturers make much more money off TSS that's how you explain the concept.   
When people purchase TSS they want to believe that they're justified in spending that much money on shells. They want to believe it weighs as much as lead #5 or hits as hard as a lead 5.  They don't want to hear about energy transfer or bigger, heavier pellets doing more damage, breaking turkeys down .  Nobody in their right mind wants to pay 10 to 12 dollars a round and believe a 2 dollar lead round could do the same job.  It's marketing at work here with the ammo companies and the long range shots on social media etc. 

It's like the guy that drops 1000 bucks on new designer cano. Marketing..  He don't want to hear that he don't need Camo or that WW 2, Vietnam fatigues are just as effective.  People like to justify in their mind the money they spend.

[Spitten and drummen]

Makes sub gauge shotguns as lethal if not more than a 12 gauge.

[RutnNStrutn]

This is a hilarious post. Whether it's about TSS, blinds, decoys, reaping, fanning, killing a gobbler you didn't call in, shooting a jake, etc, the holier than thou's always criticize. And they always state that they're ethical, insinuating that anyone who doesn't hunt exactly like them is therefore unethical. That's why I avoid posts like this.

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[Paulmyr]

Not sure being man enough is the right description for somebody who chooses to carry around more weight than necessary.

[g8rvet]

  What they can claim is due to the higher density of TSS it will retain down range energy longer than 9 lead and will therefore have more pellets on target than 5s. 

Retaining downrange energy more efficiently does not translate into more pellets on target. That's an impossible conclusion....like trying to smell the color 9.

More pellets equal more pellets. Because they have increased density they are lethal. 

In other words, the reason the patterns hold together is there are more of them (vs #5 lead) and due to the increased density (vs lead 9), they can kill.  It will pattern like # 9 lead at the same distances (pretty much) but due solely to the increased density they retain downrange energy, unlike lead, so the #9 TSS can actually kill a bird. My conclusion is exactly correct.  Your understanding is not.  Sorry, I jumped a few steps, but thought the points were obvious.  I explained it better so you can understand and stop trying to smell numbers.

Are you arguing just to argue?  Or do I need to explain the obvious to you?

[CALLM2U]

This has been enlightening, I didn't know that there were still "Lead is superior" people still around.   I guess they are probably members of the flat earth and birds aren't real clubs.