Would you shoot if you didn't call him in?

[Old Swamper]

I don't turkey hunt because I'm hungry.  I don't turkey hunt because I crave wild turkey in my diet.

I turkey hunt because the gobble has captivated me since I was 12 years old and consistently engineering close encounters with turkeys seemed impossible in those days.

While I don't find engineering close encounters with turkeys to be a difficult thing anymore I am still very much captivated by the gobble and close range encounters that I have engineered under terms I deem fair.

For me, the skill required by a hunter to facilitate a "fair chase" encounter is a critical factor relating to whether or not a gobbler should be killed.  I am aware that some folks hunt because they want to eat turkey.  I am aware that many folks struggle to kill turkeys and will capitalize on any opportunity to kill one that presents itself.  That's their prerogative. 

For me, if the turkey was called to the gun or a skillful, strategic move was accomplished to put the bird in gun range, I will kill the turkey (but there are still times where I've made moves on field turkeys and had them in gun range that I just didn't want to punch a tag that way and didn't).

I do not consider inadvertently walking up on a gobbler skillful and I find the idea of killing a gobbler under such circumstances disgusting.
I do not consider flushing a turkey off a roost and shooting him mid-flight skillful and I find it disgusting.
I do not consider sticking a fan in front of one's face and reaping a turkey skillful in any way and I find that irreprehensible. 
(If I took another minute or two to think of and illustrate other scenarios I find offensive, I could but I think you get the gist of where I'm going with my interpretation of fair chase.)

As a turkey hunter, my goal each season is to call more turkeys inside gun range.  Very simply, I want to be more versatile, adaptable and better at critical thinking that I was the season before.  Killing turkeys when inadvertent, opportunistic situations materialize doesn't make me a better hunter and I find zero fulfillment in the proposition of doing so.
So I don't and I don't affiliate with anyone who does.

"a skillful, strategic move, to put the gobbler in range"  An elegant way of stating you would crawl or creep one, right. Not judging, just trying to understand your position, as I have had this same conversation with a few who run in your circle

[FLGobstopper]

So, would you shoot a turkey that hasn't responded to your calling then? What's the line for you?

As for me...

YES - I have shot turkeys (yes multiple and would do it again) that have never made a peep that I suspected were in an area I had been calling off and on, but did not know for sure that they were until they appeared, by chance or, by skill gobblers have walked into more than acceptable shotgun range and I've killed them. Is it my most favorite way? No, but I would do it again, and again, and again, and again, and I'm good with it.

YES - I have shot turkeys that never gobbled I have roosted that night before. Turkeys that I spent countless hours scouting and put myself into position on that flew down into gun range without me ever making a sound because they were highly a pressured public land birds and I know I didn't call them in. I clucked once or couple times to make them stick their heads up before I shot them, but I did NOT call them in. I'm good with it!

YES - I have played cat and mouse with multiple longbeards in the past that have given me the run around, consistently skirting my setups out of range and have in response maneuvered myself in such a way as to put them into gun range and end the game. Again, I'm good with it and will continue to do it again, and again, and again, and again.

I have hunted mostly public land for a long, long time. I travel to hunt, I don't use decoys very often, but have in the past, I love every minute of it and love them, each and everyone one of them. If I'm turkey hunting I'm there to kill a turkey, otherwise I would take up turkey photography. That would be fun too, but I really like to pet them, take them for rides and eat them for dinner.

Not sure what others think of me or would call me, regardless I'm just really happy that I've gotten to do it for the past 35+ years of my life and hope I get to do it for many more. Each one is special and each season is special, I've learned not to take any of them for granted.

[Number17]

But, just to be factual and to set the record STRAIGHT on Pennsylvania law (whether Pennsylvanians agree with it or interpret it another way).......here it is STRAIGHT from Pennsylvania Code as legislated by the PA General Assembly.  This is not the remedial version from the PA Hunting & Trapping digest they give you when you purchase your license, like I posted previously.

Anyways........ Not tying to be a smart alec.  Just being factual. 

Title 58 - Part III - Chapter 141.45.(b).(2).(iii)



Just sayin'

I know what it says and have discussed this many times with Pa hunter and the Warden who lives 2 minutes from me.

Is hand calling defined somewhere? What about mouth calling? Do they mean friction calls and air operated calls, or do you have to use your natural voice? Seem open to interpretation. If we are taking these words literally we are pretty limited.
What about scratching in the leaves with your hand? What about scratching in the leaves with your foot?
If you can hunt with mouth calls and hand calls ONLY, it sounds like decoys are illegal, right?
Can I make a single cluck when I get out of the truck and be good for the day, or do I have to make turkey noises every so often?
Am I allowed to shut up when one is coming, and for how long?

I killed one two years ago that heard my footsteps coming through the leaves. Hadn't heard a bird all morning until he screamed over the hill 80 yards away. Before I could blink he screamed again at 40 yards and in another second he was dead. I never made a call except for walking in the dry leaves. Was that illegal?

Have you ever seen the PAGC definition of "Hunt":
"Hunt" or "hunting."  Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, CALLING, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.

So of that entire definition of "Hunting" you believe you're only legally allowed to use the CALLING part to hunt spring gobblers in Pa?Any other method is strictly prohibited because of their poorly thought out wording? Heck, you can't even "shoot at" because you have to "hunt" them by CALLING only!
You can't even legally discuss turkey hunting with a buddy or you're guilty of Conspiring to Hunt!
The law you cited says you can't TRACK turkeys either. If you see a line of fresh scratchings headed to the North out across an open flat, are you heading North or South? I guess even if you loop around to get in front of them that would be considered "pursuing" them.
No wonder this turkey hunting is so hard. They make it about impossible if you do exactly as they say.

You can take it literally if you like, but I'll continue to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

just saying.....

[runngun]

I can't wait for someone to bring up shooting turkeys with rifles like some folks do in Texas!!!! HEY!!! IT'S LEGAL!!!

NOT FOR ME!!

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[appalachianassassin]

I can't wait for someone to bring up shooting turkeys with rifles like some folks do in Texas!!!! HEY!!! IT'S LEGAL!!!

NOT FOR ME!!

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Virginia too

[dan]

Shoot him every time. If you get within 40 yrds of a turkey, you earned it even if you didn't call.


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[g8rvet]

I can't wait for someone to bring up shooting turkeys with rifles like some folks do in Texas!!!! HEY!!! IT'S LEGAL!!!

NOT FOR ME!!

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Legal in Florida on private land.  A coworker was telling me his Dad shoots them with a 22Mag at their place.  I said that did not seem sporting to me and I don't do it. He then said his dad has Parkinson's and can only shoot from a rest out of a stand and only killed them on their home place.  I said, yeah sorry, that is legit. 

[Yoder409]

But, just to be factual and to set the record STRAIGHT on Pennsylvania law (whether Pennsylvanians agree with it or interpret it another way).......here it is STRAIGHT from Pennsylvania Code as legislated by the PA General Assembly.  This is not the remedial version from the PA Hunting & Trapping digest they give you when you purchase your license, like I posted previously.

Anyways........ Not tying to be a smart alec.  Just being factual. 

Title 58 - Part III - Chapter 141.45.(b).(2).(iii)



Just sayin'

I know what it says and have discussed this many times with Pa hunter and the Warden who lives 2 minutes from me.

Is hand calling defined somewhere? What about mouth calling? Do they mean friction calls and air operated calls, or do you have to use your natural voice? Seem open to interpretation. If we are taking these words literally we are pretty limited.
What about scratching in the leaves with your hand? What about scratching in the leaves with your foot?
If you can hunt with mouth calls and hand calls ONLY, it sounds like decoys are illegal, right?
Can I make a single cluck when I get out of the truck and be good for the day, or do I have to make turkey noises every so often?
Am I allowed to shut up when one is coming, and for how long?

I killed one two years ago that heard my footsteps coming through the leaves. Hadn't heard a bird all morning until he screamed over the hill 80 yards away. Before I could blink he screamed again at 40 yards and in another second he was dead. I never made a call except for walking in the dry leaves. Was that illegal?

Have you ever seen the PAGC definition of "Hunt":
"Hunt" or "hunting."  Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, CALLING, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.

So of that entire definition of "Hunting" you believe you're only legally allowed to use the CALLING part to hunt spring gobblers in Pa?Any other method is strictly prohibited because of their poorly thought out wording? Heck, you can't even "shoot at" because you have to "hunt" them by CALLING only!
You can't even legally discuss turkey hunting with a buddy or you're guilty of Conspiring to Hunt!
The law you cited says you can't TRACK turkeys either. If you see a line of fresh scratchings headed to the North out across an open flat, are you heading North or South? I guess even if you loop around to get in front of them that would be considered "pursuing" them.
No wonder this turkey hunting is so hard. They make it about impossible if you do exactly as they say.

You can take it literally if you like, but I'll continue to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

just saying.....

You do it your way.   I'll do it to the letter.

No sleep lost for either of us, I reckon.

[Kygobblergetter]

I don't turkey hunt because I'm hungry.  I don't turkey hunt because I crave wild turkey in my diet.

I turkey hunt because the gobble has captivated me since I was 12 years old and consistently engineering close encounters with turkeys seemed impossible in those days.

While I don't find engineering close encounters with turkeys to be a difficult thing anymore I am still very much captivated by the gobble and close range encounters that I have engineered under terms I deem fair.

For me, the skill required by a hunter to facilitate a "fair chase" encounter is a critical factor relating to whether or not a gobbler should be killed.  I am aware that some folks hunt because they want to eat turkey.  I am aware that many folks struggle to kill turkeys and will capitalize on any opportunity to kill one that presents itself.  That's their prerogative. 

For me, if the turkey was called to the gun or a skillful, strategic move was accomplished to put the bird in gun range, I will kill the turkey (but there are still times where I've made moves on field turkeys and had them in gun range that I just didn't want to punch a tag that way and didn't).

I do not consider inadvertently walking up on a gobbler skillful and I find the idea of killing a gobbler under such circumstances disgusting.
I do not consider flushing a turkey off a roost and shooting him mid-flight skillful and I find it disgusting.
I do not consider sticking a fan in front of one's face and reaping a turkey skillful in any way and I find that irreprehensible. 
(If I took another minute or two to think of and illustrate other scenarios I find offensive, I could but I think you get the gist of where I'm going with my interpretation of fair chase.)

As a turkey hunter, my goal each season is to call more turkeys inside gun range.  Very simply, I want to be more versatile, adaptable and better at critical thinking that I was the season before.  Killing turkeys when inadvertent, opportunistic situations materialize doesn't make me a better hunter and I find zero fulfillment in the proposition of doing so.
So I don't and I don't affiliate with anyone who does.

I wish I could put thoughts to words the way you do. You just summed up what turkey hunting is to me.


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[Zobo]

But, just to be factual and to set the record STRAIGHT on Pennsylvania law (whether Pennsylvanians agree with it or interpret it another way).......here it is STRAIGHT from Pennsylvania Code as legislated by the PA General Assembly.  This is not the remedial version from the PA Hunting & Trapping digest they give you when you purchase your license, like I posted previously.

Anyways........ Not tying to be a smart alec.  Just being factual. 

Title 58 - Part III - Chapter 141.45.(b).(2).(iii)



Just sayin'

I know what it says and have discussed this many times with Pa hunter and the Warden who lives 2 minutes from me.

Is hand calling defined somewhere? What about mouth calling? Do they mean friction calls and air operated calls, or do you have to use your natural voice? Seem open to interpretation. If we are taking these words literally we are pretty limited.
What about scratching in the leaves with your hand? What about scratching in the leaves with your foot?
If you can hunt with mouth calls and hand calls ONLY, it sounds like decoys are illegal, right?
Can I make a single cluck when I get out of the truck and be good for the day, or do I have to make turkey noises every so often?
Am I allowed to shut up when one is coming, and for how long?

I killed one two years ago that heard my footsteps coming through the leaves. Hadn't heard a bird all morning until he screamed over the hill 80 yards away. Before I could blink he screamed again at 40 yards and in another second he was dead. I never made a call except for walking in the dry leaves. Was that illegal?

Have you ever seen the PAGC definition of "Hunt":
"Hunt" or "hunting."  Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, CALLING, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.

So of that entire definition of "Hunting" you believe you're only legally allowed to use the CALLING part to hunt spring gobblers in Pa?Any other method is strictly prohibited because of their poorly thought out wording? Heck, you can't even "shoot at" because you have to "hunt" them by CALLING only!
You can't even legally discuss turkey hunting with a buddy or you're guilty of Conspiring to Hunt!
The law you cited says you can't TRACK turkeys either. If you see a line of fresh scratchings headed to the North out across an open flat, are you heading North or South? I guess even if you loop around to get in front of them that would be considered "pursuing" them.
No wonder this turkey hunting is so hard. They make it about impossible if you do exactly as they say.

You can take it literally if you like, but I'll continue to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

just saying.....

Well good luck convincing a judge of that, your interpretation of the spirit of the law, lol! I'm sure the judge will be very understanding and accepting of your concepts. I really wish I knew what the heck you're talking about, but I think I'd need a QP of Maui Wowie just to follow your train of thought.

[Zobo]

AGAIN - to each his own.  Follow the limits, follow the rules.  Go get 'um. 
What's next - Would you shoot a bird after watching a YouTube video from THP?  As usual this forum can get very elitist at times.  It may be it's charm.  Lol

We ARE very charming, even you! Thank you for your very kind words. 

[Yoder409]

But, just to be factual and to set the record STRAIGHT on Pennsylvania law (whether Pennsylvanians agree with it or interpret it another way).......here it is STRAIGHT from Pennsylvania Code as legislated by the PA General Assembly.  This is not the remedial version from the PA Hunting & Trapping digest they give you when you purchase your license, like I posted previously.

Anyways........ Not tying to be a smart alec.  Just being factual. 

Title 58 - Part III - Chapter 141.45.(b).(2).(iii)



Just sayin'

I know what it says and have discussed this many times with Pa hunter and the Warden who lives 2 minutes from me.

Is hand calling defined somewhere? What about mouth calling? Do they mean friction calls and air operated calls, or do you have to use your natural voice? Seem open to interpretation. If we are taking these words literally we are pretty limited.
What about scratching in the leaves with your hand? What about scratching in the leaves with your foot?
If you can hunt with mouth calls and hand calls ONLY, it sounds like decoys are illegal, right?
Can I make a single cluck when I get out of the truck and be good for the day, or do I have to make turkey noises every so often?
Am I allowed to shut up when one is coming, and for how long?

I killed one two years ago that heard my footsteps coming through the leaves. Hadn't heard a bird all morning until he screamed over the hill 80 yards away. Before I could blink he screamed again at 40 yards and in another second he was dead. I never made a call except for walking in the dry leaves. Was that illegal?

Have you ever seen the PAGC definition of "Hunt":
"Hunt" or "hunting."  Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, CALLING, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.

So of that entire definition of "Hunting" you believe you're only legally allowed to use the CALLING part to hunt spring gobblers in Pa?Any other method is strictly prohibited because of their poorly thought out wording? Heck, you can't even "shoot at" because you have to "hunt" them by CALLING only!
You can't even legally discuss turkey hunting with a buddy or you're guilty of Conspiring to Hunt!
The law you cited says you can't TRACK turkeys either. If you see a line of fresh scratchings headed to the North out across an open flat, are you heading North or South? I guess even if you loop around to get in front of them that would be considered "pursuing" them.
No wonder this turkey hunting is so hard. They make it about impossible if you do exactly as they say.

You can take it literally if you like, but I'll continue to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

just saying.....

Well good luck convincing a judge of that, your interpretation of the spirit of the law, lol! I'm sure the judge will be very understanding and accepting of your concepts. I really wish I knew what the heck you're talking about, but I think I'd need a QP of Maui Wowie just to follow your train of thought.

[Dougas]

I may be the odd man out on here, but, I only hunt for meat. I do not care about the size of antlers, beards, spurs, tusks, claws, pelts or anything else. It is all about meat. The trophy thing or even the hunting experience takes second seat to the meat.
Passing on jakes though, hypocritical and counter to what I just said is something I will do from time to time. I can enjoy everything about "hunting" with the exception of the kill and caring for the meat and eating it, without hunting. Just carry a camera instead of a gun or bow.
I don't hunt elk or bears anymore, because I don't care for bear meat and I have no room for and am probably the only person in the world that doesn't really care for the taste of elk meat. I would not hunt turkeys if I didn't like the meat, same for deer, antelope and mt. lions. I enjoyed hunting all of those and at times I have been guilty of trophy hunting, however, I can enjoy the outdoors and all that hunting has to offer, without hunting, except for the kill and the care after the kill. This is why, I believe that the method I use to hunt, often times dictates how I deal with a situation and I don't limit myself to any one train of thought when it comes to executing strategies. I have no problem employing spot and stalk, ambush, using various calls and calling techniques, fanning, etc. If the situation is right and calls for that particular strategy. I will not, however, shoot one on a limb before flydown, though it is legal to do so in Oregon.

[Number17]

Have you ever seen the PAGC definition of "Hunt":
"Hunt" or "hunting."  Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, CALLING, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.

Well good luck convincing a judge of that, your interpretation of the spirit of the law, lol! I'm sure the judge will be very understanding and accepting of your concepts. I really wish I knew what the heck you're talking about, but I think I'd need a QP of Maui Wowie just to follow your train of thought.

It's very simple really. The Pa Game Commission defines what constitutes "Hunting" by their paragraph above. Any of those words or phrases means that you are hunting.

Now, for Spring Gobbler they tell you that you can hunt them by "CALLING only. No Stalking."
Therefor, for the letter of the law followers, you shall not commence any action listed other than CALLING or you are in violation of the law.

You cannot: Chase, Track, Pursue, Lay in wait, Ambush, Shoot at, Wound, Place Bait, Decoy, Help another person, or talk to another person about turkey hunting (conspiring to hunt).
These things are all considered "Hunting" in Pennsylvania and specifically excluded from the legal means of hunting Spring Gobblers......if you follow the letter of the law.

Now ask yourself: Do you really think they mean by CALLING only, or did they put that in there to fortify STALKING is prohibited?

If you're a stickler for the rules you had better close that truck door and find the first available tree to sit against so as no to PURSUE turkeys to far, get out your boxcall and start yapping. You do anything else in Pa and I hope you're calling the warden to turn yourself in.

Hunting by "Calling only. No Stalking" is poorly thought out considering their all encompassing definition of what can be considered hunting. I respect no authority of ignorance. I won't tolerate it.

Yoder, I bought one of your holsters years ago and gifted it to a friend of mine. Built like a tank. He loves it.

[Number17]

I will not, however, shoot one on a limb before flydown, though it is legal to do so in Oregon.

Believe it or not that is legal in Pennsylvania as well. If you set up under a roosted bird and the hand on the clock hits 30 minutes prior to sunrise (or use the table in the digest for the sticklers) that bird sitting on the limb is fair game.
I wouldn't shoot one of the limb either, but I killed one once as his landing gear was being deployed! He gobbled his brains out on the roost and I had my barrel pointed to the woods opening I figured he might land. I guessed right. I never made a call. Pure deadly silence. LOL