Closet Reapers??

[idratherb]

Well said WW

[joey46]

Don't agree.  Too much whining about decoys and this tactic and that tactic..  The good old days are gone.  They won't be back.  Shorter seasons and reduced limits are the only logical solution if a solution is really needed.Way too many crying that their limit has been reduced from 3 to 2 or 2 to 1   Live with it . Take up golf 

[eggshell]

 I still get aggravated when regulations are driven by social pressure and not science. I do respectively disagree that reduced limits and shorter seasons are the only solution. However, the science needs to answer that not opinions.

I will never take up golf, but after 50+ years where i never imagined my life without turkey hunting I can now see myself just slowly leaving the sport behind. I think I could actually quit and it has nothing to do with declining turkey flocks and everything to do with people. I used to be an avid pheasnt and grouse hunter and I quit that part of hunting several years ago because of the lack of quality opportunity. I think we are in an irreversable decline as a sport and future generations will only see themselves socially and economical excluded or at least limited from hunting. It is a dangerous philosphy to demand more regulation, even though there may be some validity to it. 

[Yoder409]

I think we are in an irreversible decline as a sport ...........

I believe, 100%, that you are right.

[Roost 1]

I think we are in an irreversible decline as a sport ...........

I believe, 100%, that you are right.

X2

[GobbleNut]

Regarding the original point of the discussion,...that is, the safety issue at question in the use of fans in the manner exhibited in the video,...one might initially think that a statistical analysis of turkey hunting accidents would show a definite correlation between the apparent increasing use of fanning and a corresponding increase in turkey hunting accidents.  To my knowledge, no such correlation exists,...and fanning has been around long enough now and is used (apparently) by enough turkey hunters that any such correlation would be pretty clear by now. 

The fact is that, on its surface, fanning just SEEMS to be dangerous,...and for pretty obvious reasons.  So why, with the increasing use of fanning as a hunting tactic, is there little evidence that it is any more dangerous than say, careless use of firearms, or someone getting shot by someone shooting at a decoy, or even someone sitting against a tree and calling?  Personally, I think there are two reasons.

First, MOST turkey hunters are conscientious about target identification.  That is, most of us are capable of looking at a turkey fan and differentiating between a real, live gobbler and one with one or more human beings sneaking behind that fan, or even a full-body strutting gobbler decoy.  Secondly, I think MOST hunters that utilize these tactics understand that they are using a tool that could possibly put themselves in a dangerous situation and are generally quite conscious of that fact,...and as a result, only employ it with utmost caution and in circumstances where they most likely feel confident there are no safety issues involved (which I suspect was likely the case in the video in question).

Having stated all of the above, there have been,...and will probably continue to be (unless the use of all decoys is made illegal) cases of careless hunters that are using a fan being shot by other careless hunters that have not properly identified the target.  That combination of the two is what might get someone shot.  However, that same combination is what gets hunters shot that are turkey calling, sitting a few yards from a turkey decoy, or carelessly handling a firearm, all of which,...again, to my knowledge,...have equal or higher accident rates than any associated with someone displaying a turkey fan on their person. 

Now, don't get me wrong.  I would be "tickled pink" if the use of visual aids across the spectrum were made illegal in hunting turkeys.  I totally agree that our turkey populations have taken a serious hit in many places due solely to the use of, and reliance on, these visual aids in hunting them.  The resource is being jeopardized by the fact that there are increasingly more turkey hunters,...and those hunters are increasingly using these tactics that make turkeys more susceptible to being killed. 

If visual aids need to be made illegal, THAT is the reason why.  Relying on proclamations of safety issues when those issues cannot be truly supported by statistics is just a "red herring" argument.     

[joey46]

Whew!  I guess I've chased them for 50+ years also. I live in a state that has two zones so I can conceivably hunt for around two months in the spring and take two gobblers.  If things would change to a time the season would be one month with a one bird limit would I quit? Of course not .  I'd be a little more selective and if tagged out load up the tent and travel to become a pesky non resident somewhere else. If legal my old buddy Funky Chicken would be in tow.
This has become the most doom and gloom bunch I've ever experienced. A shame really.  Even during this tragic turkey downturn I, at 75, in 2022 managed to take a Fl land public bird, a FL private land bird and topped the year off with a WY Merriam. Health issues this spring limited my time but one Osceola still went into the oven. Maybe hunting more and whining less would be a good thought.

[eggshell]

Gobblenut, That is exactly what I meant by science based regulations made on facts, not feelings. I do not employ fans or decoys, but I do accept the use of them by others, as a legal tool. Again this is a choice and opinion and made within the bounds of a free society and in no way meant to criticize anyone.

You are also correct that data does not support the use of fans as any more dangerous than just going hunting. Actually, I think calling is probably more of a proven risk. Carelessness is the leading cause of accidents and I am living proof of that!

My opinion and solely an opinion is that decoys and visual aides do in fact make hunters more successful. For the hunter with limited time and space this is a huge asset. The prying question is; does the data indicate it is detrimental to the flock as a whole. My presumption is yes, but with no data to support that it is just that a presumption and opinion, so I support the legal use of them until agencies define they are contributing to flock decline.

I kept track of kills among local hunters in my area this year and asked how many used decoys. I was shocked to know out of all the kills the first week of season (for those I asked) every single bird was killed using a decoy. Specifically gobbler decoys were successful 3-1 over hen decoys. I had multiple gobblers stand their ground and just look my direction for a hen then finally move off with the real thing. I imagine a strutter decoy would have sealed the deal on at least one. I still tagged my one gobbler later in season in my preferred way, so good for me and good for all the others. We were all happy with our seasons. I got several more hunts in having limited success early.

[El Pavo Grande]

Whew!  I guess I've chased them for 50+ years also. I live in a state that has two zones so I can conceivably hunt for around two months in the spring and take two gobblers.  If things would change to a time the season would be one month with a one bird limit would I quit? Of course not .  I'd be a little more selective and if tagged out load up the tent and travel to become a pesky non resident somewhere else. If legal my old buddy Funky Chicken would be in tow.
This has become the most doom and gloom bunch I've ever experienced. A shame really.  Even during this tragic turkey downturn I, at 75, in 2022 managed to take a Fl land public bird, a FL private land bird and topped the year off with a WY Merriam. Health issues this spring limited my time but one Osceola still went into the oven. Maybe hunting more and whining less would be a good thought.

The problem is if anyone voices concerns over methods, tools, or social media practices that could be considered damaging for turkey populations, turkey hunting opportunities, and the future of turkey hunting, he or she is labeled as an anti-hunter, whiner, elitist....the list goes on.  It's usually that with very little substance to support the opinion.  And that's the real shame. 

[crow]

Whew!  I guess I've chased them for 50+ years also. I live in a state that has two zones so I can conceivably hunt for around two months in the spring and take two gobblers.  If things would change to a time the season would be one month with a one bird limit would I quit? Of course not .  I'd be a little more selective and if tagged out load up the tent and travel to become a pesky non resident somewhere else. If legal my old buddy Funky Chicken would be in tow.
This has become the most doom and gloom bunch I've ever experienced. A shame really.  Even during this tragic turkey downturn I, at 75, in 2022 managed to take a Fl land public bird, a FL private land bird and topped the year off with a WY Merriam. Health issues this spring limited my time but one Osceola still went into the oven. Maybe hunting more and whining less would be a good thought.

The problem is if anyone voices concerns over methods, tools, or social media practices that could be considered damaging for turkey populations, turkey hunting opportunities, and the future of turkey hunting, he or she is labeled as an anti-hunter, whiner, elitist....the list goes on.  It's usually that with very little substance to support the opinion.  And that's the real shame.

,   page 20 and 21 of Old Pro Turkey Hunter,
I wonder if Old Gene would of been called a whiner

[joey46]

Don't know who "Old Gene" is so your reference means nothing to me but I'll bet old Gene would have adapted with the times.
It appears nothing aggravates a whiner more than being called a whiner. 
This forum has many subsections.  It should consider adding:
We Hate Decoys (the sight of a male decoy causes blood pressure spikes)
Ban Nonresidents or at least price them out
Ban Social Media (especially THP - the scumbag)
Ban OnX (no GPS either - the more guys stumbling around in the dark the better)
Ban Trail Cams.
Don't even get me started on cell phones.
etc, etc. As long as it contains the word "ban" we're good with it
You guys keep this up you'll be hunting in blaze orange with airguns, won't be allowed to start before 9am and will have to quit at 11.  I almost hope to live to see it. Future generations will title it the:
       WHINER REBELLION
Well it's 6am.  Time to get up, walk my 2 miles before it gets too hot and enjoy the day.  My knees will hurt but I'll try not to whine about it.  Lol.

[crow]

That would be Gene Nunnery, author of "Old Pro Turkey Hunter"

Great book, one of my favorites

[joey46]

Thanks - I'll look for it.  I used Hunting the American Wild Turkey by Dave Harbour as my early bible.  Especially liked the chapter where he bumped into a young Harold Knight in Land Between the Lakes KY. Harold was developing his tube call.
If there is a point to all this it is ADAPT OR QUIT.  You aren't going to legislate a solution to your perceived crisis. I hunted the big birds when the population was building. The limit was one and the season was short.  I hunted them through the glory years. I guess I'm wrapping things up during a down period.  If I have to go to a shorter season and reduced limits I'll live with it but won't whine about it or suggest solutions that are no more than "let's just do something".

[El Pavo Grande]

Thanks - I'll look for it.  I used Hunting the American Wild Turkey by Dave Harbour as my early bible.  Especially liked the chapter where he bumped into a young Harold Knight in Land Between the Lakes KY. Harold was developing his tube call.
If there is a point to all this it is ADAPT OR QUIT.  You aren't going to legislate a solution to your perceived crisis. I hunted the big birds when the population was building. The limit was one and the season was short.  I hunted them through the glory years. I guess I'm wrapping things up during a down period.  If I have to go to a shorter season and reduced limits I'll live with it but won't whine about it or suggest solutions that are no more than "let's just do something".

"Adapt or Quit".... maybe I misinterpret your comments, but I'll agree to disagree with just adapting and sticking our head in the sand. Label those that speak out as "whiners" if you want, but keep in mind what we are ADAPTING too.  What you may miss is that many wish to avoid legislation, avoid loss of opportunity, and protect the resource.  Before you get on a high horse of hunt harder, adapt, and "turkey hunting isn't easy so work harder".... It's not about that.  You aren't the only one who has hunted a number of years, through good and bad times.  In fact it isn't consistently easy, nor should it be.  I would think an "invested" turkey hunter of 50 years would take pause at reaping, technology employed, loads that shoot to 80-90 yards, etc.  There is only so much we can adapt.  The wild turkey can only adapt and survive so much, when you couple the above with loss off available habitat.  I guess when we start turkey hunting with drones, we should just adapt and accept it?  We are going adapt our way right out of turkey hunting with that attitude. 

I don't care if one day we go to a 1 limit everywhere, ban decoys, ban social media, and only allow traditional archery..... it's about the hunt and not #s, and those that truly love it would still participate despite the challenge. 

[Roost 1]

Thanks - I'll look for it.  I used Hunting the American Wild Turkey by Dave Harbour as my early bible.  Especially liked the chapter where he bumped into a young Harold Knight in Land Between the Lakes KY. Harold was developing his tube call.
If there is a point to all this it is ADAPT OR QUIT.  You aren't going to legislate a solution to your perceived crisis. I hunted the big birds when the population was building. The limit was one and the season was short.  I hunted them through the glory years. I guess I'm wrapping things up during a down period.  If I have to go to a shorter season and reduced limits I'll live with it but won't whine about it or suggest solutions that are no more than "let's just do something".

"Adapt or Quit".... maybe I misinterpret your comments, but I'll agree to disagree with just adapting and sticking our head in the sand. Label those that speak out as "whiners" if you want, but keep in mind what we are ADAPTING too.  What you may miss is that many wish to avoid legislation, avoid loss of opportunity, and protect the resource.  Before you get on a high horse of hunt harder, adapt, and "turkey hunting isn't easy so work harder".... It's not about that.  You aren't the only one who has hunted a number of years, through good and bad times.  In fact it isn't consistently easy, nor should it be.  I would think an "invested" turkey hunter of 50 years would take pause at reaping, technology employed, loads that shoot to 80-90 yards, etc.  There is only so much we can adapt.  The wild turkey can only adapt and survive so much, when you couple the above with loss off available habitat.  I guess when we start turkey hunting with drones, we should just adapt and accept it?  We are going adapt our way right out of turkey hunting with that attitude. 

I don't care if one day we go to a 1 limit everywhere, ban decoys, ban social media, and only allow traditional archery..... it's about the hunt and not #s, and those that truly love it would still participate despite the challenge.

Winner winner   

Only took 4 pages to get a great response!!