Bird Numbers Down/ Decrees The Limit ?

[GobbleNut]

Here's my take on the gist of what would happen if management of wildlife on Federally-owned lands was taken over by the Feds with the intention of making access to hunting equal to all U.S. citizens.  The Feds would have absolutely no choice but to allow hunting on all those lands strictly through a limited-permit basis through drawings open to everybody.  The result would be hundreds of thousands of people applying each year for opportunities to hunt lands where only a few thousand permits might be allotted.

Each of our odds of getting to hunt those Federal lands would plummet to almost zero.  In addition, to administer the drawings and allotment of permits, the Feds would have no choice but to charge an "application fee" to get into the drawings (similar to what many/most state agencies do now).  That/those fees could be applied as a single fee for all federal lands,...or they might be applied individually for each Federal property across the country.

If those fees were individually applied to every federal land, it would cost each of us a small fortune to apply for permits to hunt the hundreds/thousands of Federal properties across the country,...and still with very little chance of drawing a permit for any of them.   

Conversely, if a single fee was charged for all Federal lands and everybody went into the same drawing "pot", someone that wanted to hunt a Federal property in Florida might find out they have drawn a permit for a National Forest in far northwest Washington!  Wouldn't that be a hoot! 

Of course, there are possible other scenarios on how to deal with the most-assured fiasco that would exist if the Feds took over, but there ain't none of them gonna be good for hunters! 

Bottom line, fellers,...be careful what you wish for.  It most certainly will not end up being the nirvana you think it would be!   

[joey46]

Wouldn't need to be complicated.  Say I wanted to hunt Kentucky's Daniel Boone NF if it ever went to a draw system for OOS or everyone.  About January there would be a computer generated app to apply.  Almost all state quota systems work this way and have been for years.  Whether the resident gets priority would have to be determined. As a Florida resident I see how much Florida's general quota system, that gives the resident no edge whatsoever, ticks the locals off.  I once went to the Big Cypress area (National Park Service in FL south zone) and camped in the Bear Island campground. When I walked around I had the only Florida license tag.  This is one reason I'm not so sympathetic with all those whining about OOSers or feel the least bit guilty when I travel to "your" state to hunt "your" National Forest.

[turkey stew]

"Soylent Green is PEOPLE".

100% agreement! Look at all the ag land and woodlots that use to be around your state. They are disappearing at an ever increasing rate. We as humans are reaching our carrying capacity! The farmers that remain need to increase production. That causes them to farm land that use to be grasslands and woods. That cycle will continue until hunting will be nonexistent for lack of game.

[Paulmyr]

Here's my take on the gist of what would happen if management of wildlife on Federally-owned lands was taken over by the Feds with the intention of making access to hunting equal to all U.S. citizens.  The Feds would have absolutely no choice but to allow hunting on all those lands strictly through a limited-permit basis through drawings open to everybody.  The result would be hundreds of thousands of people applying each year for opportunities to hunt lands where only a few thousand permits might be allotted.

Each of our odds of getting to hunt those Federal lands would plummet to almost zero.  In addition, to administer the drawings and allotment of permits, the Feds would have no choice but to charge an "application fee" to get into the drawings (similar to what many/most state agencies do now).  That/those fees could be applied as a single fee for all federal lands,...or they might be applied individually for each Federal property across the country.

If those fees were individually applied to every federal land, it would cost each of us a small fortune to apply for permits to hunt the hundreds/thousands of Federal properties across the country,...and still with very little chance of drawing a permit for any of them.   

Conversely, if a single fee was charged for all Federal lands and everybody went into the same drawing "pot", someone that wanted to hunt a Federal property in Florida might find out they have drawn a permit for a National Forest in far northwest Washington!  Wouldn't that be a hoot! 

Of course, there are possible other scenarios on how to deal with the most-assured fiasco that would exist if the Feds took over, but there ain't none of them gonna be good for hunters! 

Bottom line, fellers,...be careful what you wish for.  It most certainly will not end up being the nirvana you think it would be!   

Here's another thought on the federal management of game on federal lands. If the greenies can shut down oil production on fed land to the detriment of the country  what makes one think the anti's won't be able to do same with hunting.

[joey46]

Why couldn't they do that now??

[sasquatch1]

Im careful what I wish for, it would be devastating to see turkey go the route of western big game where you are buying preference points for 7, 9, sometimes 15 years just to draw $1000 tag obviously that's extreme but piling this stuff on ourselves as hunters is not something we should be pursuing IMO.

I don't think we can bag limit our way into a better populations, when you talk about limiting the harvest of mature gobblers it's a massive case of treating a symptom and not the disease. So no I don't think states halfing the bag limit is the right answer. We need better poult production and survival, the turkey factories are the hens they need nesting and brooding habitat. We could also get into the fact we've made it so incredibly idiot proof to kill a gobbler with technology and tactics that might not be in the best interest of the sport.

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This!!! 90% of these guys have no experience out west to get an understanding of just his bad things can be!

So they crying their way into losing rights as free Americans. Actually asking for it!

The system needs more funding, any state with good funding (think MO) has a lot more game and lands to hunt! But, IK most would also have a heart attack if license fees were raised.

If you think it's cheap, buy your own 100 acres and manage it, then you'll get an understanding of what the state is trying to do on massive scale while collecting Pennies.

Certain states could start selling tags and not licenses. That way there's no buying 3 and 4 day licenses. Again like MO, no, you buy your two tags and it don't matter if you hunting one day or all season. If not that just plain sell hunting licenses for the year to NR.


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[TauntoHawk]

People complain about all the non residents license plates at the local wma but meanwhile the family farm hasn't had a stable population of birds in 5 years. Turning away non residents might lessen the pressure on what public land birds are out there but it's going to do absolutely nothing to fix an entire state filled with private lands population woes.

The rise of the traveling turkey hunter is a pickle, I think more for the fact that it's gainly popularity as the population is dropping but I really don't see it as the primary cause otherwise everyone with private wouldn't be affected.

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[Paulmyr]

Im careful what I wish for, it would be devastating to see turkey go the route of western big game where you are buying preference points for 7, 9, sometimes 15 years just to draw $1000 tag obviously that's extreme but piling this stuff on ourselves as hunters is not something we should be pursuing IMO.

I don't think we can bag limit our way into a better populations, when you talk about limiting the harvest of mature gobblers it's a massive case of treating a symptom and not the disease. So no I don't think states halfing the bag limit is the right answer. We need better poult production and survival, the turkey factories are the hens they need nesting and brooding habitat. We could also get into the fact we've made it so incredibly idiot proof to kill a gobbler with technology and tactics that might not be in the best interest of the sport.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

This!!! 90% of these guys have no experience out west to get an understanding of just his bad things can be!

So they crying their way into losing rights as free Americans. Actually asking for it!

The system needs more funding, any state with good funding (think MO) has a lot more game and lands to hunt! But, IK most would also have a heart attack if license fees were raised.

If you think it's cheap, buy your own 100 acres and manage it, then you'll get an understanding of what the state is trying to do on massive scale while collecting Pennies.

Certain states could start selling tags and not licenses. That way there's no buying 3 and 4 day licenses. Again like MO, no, you buy your two tags and it don't matter if you hunting one day or all season. If not that just plain sell hunting licenses for the year to NR.


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I could see and would have no problem paying a public land fee if that money were used to buy/ lease more public land.

I know if one state where landowners get a tax break if they manage thier land a certain way and in return the public is allowed to hunt on it.

[TauntoHawk]

That's something we could talk about, more programs offering land owners assistance with habitat work, and more programs aimed at giving hunters access to private to evenly distribute pressure.

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[Paulmyr]

Why couldn't they do that now??

Because as Gobblenut stated the wildlife is in control of the state. Easier and less costly to ban hunting on the federal level than it is in each state individually. Only one swipe of the pen compared to 50.

[Happy]

I would be all for anyone who utilizes public land for any reason to be required to buy a permit for the year. A couple dollars per permit, and that money goes directly to the upkeep and improvement of that land. I would prefere hunters pay more than the average bird watcher or hiker. But I don't think a few dollars for a permit would hurt anyone

[nativeks]

If you feel there should be a decrease in tags then you should personally adhere to the limit you think it should be in principle and not take advantage of what the actual limit is.

I have not bought a tag to hunt my own land since 2020. The numbers do not support it. I still donate alot of habitat work and donate alot to turkey conservation.

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[Ohiowoodchuck]

My opinion is if the states cared, then they would offer a bounty on nesting predators during trapping season. This would also help out the trappers since the fur market is not existent. I started a major habit improvement on my place several years and the last three years I have been removing all in season animals during trapping season. It is really working. When I bought the farm 10 years ago I never heard a Turkey in the spring. When I took my son last weekend, we counted seven Tom's gobbling on my place and the surrounding neighbors. I'm constantly getting pics of hens and Tom's and later in the summer I'll get pics of hens with her brood. I'm really impressed how it's turning out. I will keep up the pressure on the predators in the fall. I shave experienced the same outcome on my buddies farm that I hunt on. It was nothing to hear 15-20 different Tom's gobbling when he first purchased it 8 years ago. It started to dwindle down. I'm the only person allowed to hunt and most years I took one bird, some I'd take two. I started trapping it three years ago and I can see a big improvement in the turkeys this year. When you take 17 raccoon off of a 100 yard stretch of creek in a two week time, there is a problem. I would forget about the state coming in and doing anything because all they care about is your money and catering to the animal rights activists. Look at the vast majority of the chiefs of wildlife that the governors install. Most have never hunted a day in there life. 

[howl]

Solid point. What are the numbers of people who do this? I imagine some states publish it. They publish every durn thing else.

[eggshell]

I would forget about the state coming in and doing anything because all they care about is your money and catering to the animal rights activists. Look at the vast majority of the chiefs of wildlife that the governors install. Most have never hunted a day in there life.

With all respect Ohiowoodchuck, I think you have been misinformed. I worked 30+ years for ODOW and every chief I ever knew hunted and fished and understood very well where their paycheck came from. I never once heard any DOW employee defend animal rights organizations.

I am not arguing just trying to kindly bring facts to the discussion.