This 2021 OnX article on "best turkey hunting states" sure didn't age well!

[El Pavo Grande]

"Can you argue that YouTube and Social Media practices have not created any negatives for localized turkey populations or hunter opportunity?"  No, I can't argue that.  Neither can I make the same argument for the shotgun.  The lid is off and will never go back on social media.  I would say we need to figure out how to use these platforms to educate people on helping turkeys where and how they can from small efforts to major efforts.  I will hopefully be able to take part in something like this soon.  I'll make sure to let all of you know so that you can watch

Yes, this is a platform that we should be able to discuss negatives, even if it's concerning entertainment that makes the masses feel all warm and fuzzy inside.  Even if it garners likes and shares that stroke the ego.  But, it shouldn't be, "oh well, the cat's out of the bag.  No turning back".  Discussing and bringing to light what is detrimental could be educational to many that don't know any better or have never thought beyond the entertainment or social media side of it.  Its ok to have some accountability.  And a part of the discussion should be on the methods and tools in which are promoted to hunt turkeys with. 

[Shiloh]

We agree on most.  Just saying that I think it's easier to turn the train in a positive direction rather than discussing what's unlikely to change.  Maybe discussing it will bring change.  We'll see. 

[3bailey3]

Shiloh you ever have your place on a hunting show, thinking Realtree, I Remember seeing it and thinking I know that sandy creek bottom.

[Shiloh]

No sir......nothing like realtree.  The THP guys have hunted here and done a scouting show, but that's it.  If you ever wanna ride out and see it give me a shout.  We have done a ton of work.  Planted several hundred acres in Longleaf pines that we will burn for the first time in February.  Super excited about that. 

[TurkeyReaper69]

I haven't hopped on this forum at all in the last few months, I really don't care to read about folks fall deer hunting festivities, or their summer garden. Thank you deerhunt for posting the only thought-provoking post in this forum since the last time I got online.

Just to address a few things.

First as if OnX and the other online mapping programs hadn't already done major damage just by existing (Most OnX users wouldn't do too well with a USGS topo map in their hands), they are now writing these hack articles on their subjective view of the "best turkey states" all of which being ones I have hunted and have been getting major social media and youtube hype over the last few years. Don't think for a second the OnX boys up in Missoula give a damn about public land turkey hunters. They are in it for the money and just see turkey like many other western hunting socialites AS AN ADDITIONAL REVENUE STREAM IN THE OFF SEASON... (looking at you Randy Newberg, Hushin, Eastman's etc. who've recently seen the soaring popularity and had to get their piece of the pie)

Second of all, Shiloh. Whether it be a trend or not the damage has been done. My new home state of Tennessee has cut the bag limit in half and drastically changed the season structure in a few short years. Mississippi, my previous state of residence has opted for a public land non-resident draw. If I wish to start my season a month earlier now as a TN resident, I'll have to enter a draw to start my season in MS. And not to mention, my childhood home of Florida has now moved several lands into draw hunt/special opportunity areas that were previously open to the general public. Maybe I agree with you, it may just be a trend or a fad. It sure will burn out when you have to spend 500+ dollars in application fees just for the chance to maybe travel out of state to hunt some gobblers on public dirt. Many folks will be priced out of the traveling turkey hunting arena as states raise NR license costs and limit availability for NR hunting opportunities.... poor man's big game hunt no more. 

[idratherb]

 

[Shiloh]

Time will surely tell, and I know for sure that social media has hurt some.  LOTS of other factors contribute to what you detailed above though.  Two of those states are the fastest growing in the country and one of them has THE most limited turkey resource of all.  MS is now the earliest and easiest opener in a more and more crowded and popular southeast.  If it hadn't been SM telling everyone some goober headed turkey guru would have written and article in Outdoor Life telling them. 
Do all you can to help the situation, find the silver lining and have fun.  Life's too short to be so sour about it;)

[silvestris]

"Soylent Green is people."

[GobbleGitr]

Caution-Opinionated old man ruminations below.
Any time something is popularized it creates demand.  Whether it is that toy people are fighting over for a Christmas gift, the new release of a bourbon everyone has got to have, homes during Covid, or the reintroduction of wild turkeys...people get passionate and competitive.  In turkey hunting we have a base that does it simply because it is our lifestyle and part of the fiber of our being.  And we have a helluva lotta spring warriors doing it for adrenaline rush and status. 
The use of social media is a continuation of the popularization of turkey shooting (note I refrain from calling it turkey hunting, as it is the kill, and often the amps generated with it or brand behind it) that has existed since the reintroduction of the wild turkey.
When turkeys were first reintroduced, states gave out licenses sparingly.  As turkey populations initially exceeded hunter pressures and other challenges in their local ecosystems, exploitation was inevitable.  Turkey tags were the golden goose for years for state game agencies.  Organizations that may have had good intentions turned them into a revenue stream...requiring more hunters.  Brands exploded that catered to the turkey hunter, and all manner of media was required to sell products: records then audiotapes then CDs, VHS then TV shows then DVDs, all manner of print media.  I belong to outdoor orgs, I like some of these brands, I very much enjoyed many of the media productions (and have them still)...and I have hunted all across the country. 
I don't think anyone on this forum is blameless in the current state of the wild turkey.  Just by being consumers of wild turkey hunting, we are part of that culture and exploitation. Many of us will be here when others are on to the next trend. But as individuals we do make choices that reflect our attitudes and influence others.  I respect very much many of the entries on this topic-I can see you care as much as I do, and are trying to identify solvable problems.  The original post was excellent, providing an example of how unchecked promotion is problematic.  I didn't hunt fall turkeys for the first time in decades this year, and restricted my spring hunting to fewer states last spring, as well as only mentoring one youth (and have began focusing youth more on small game hunting...we still need hunters!).
I am not right or wrong, just an opinion like the rest of you. At least we care. 

[GobbleNut]

Caution-Opinionated old man ruminations below.
Any time something is popularized it creates demand.  Whether it is that toy people are fighting over for a Christmas gift, the new release of a bourbon everyone has got to have, homes during Covid, or the reintroduction of wild turkeys...people get passionate and competitive.  In turkey hunting we have a base that does it simply because it is our lifestyle and part of the fiber of our being.  And we have a helluva lotta spring warriors doing it for adrenaline rush and status. 
The use of social media is a continuation of the popularization of turkey shooting (note I refrain from calling it turkey hunting, as it is the kill, and often the amps generated with it or brand behind it) that has existed since the reintroduction of the wild turkey.
When turkeys were first reintroduced, states gave out licenses sparingly.  As turkey populations initially exceeded hunter pressures and other challenges in their local ecosystems, exploitation was inevitable.  Turkey tags were the golden goose for years for state game agencies.  Organizations that may have had good intentions turned them into a revenue stream...requiring more hunters.  Brands exploded that catered to the turkey hunter, and all manner of media was required to sell products: records then audiotapes then CDs, VHS then TV shows then DVDs, all manner of print media.  I belong to outdoor orgs, I like some of these brands, I very much enjoyed many of the media productions (and have them still)...and I have hunted all across the country. 
I don't think anyone on this forum is blameless in the current state of the wild turkey.  Just by being consumers of wild turkey hunting, we are part of that culture and exploitation. Many of us will be here when others are on to the next trend. But as individuals we do make choices that reflect our attitudes and influence others.  I respect very much many of the entries on this topic-I can see you care as much as I do, and are trying to identify solvable problems.  The original post was excellent, providing an example of how unchecked promotion is problematic.  I didn't hunt fall turkeys for the first time in decades this year, and restricted my spring hunting to fewer states last spring, as well as only mentoring one youth (and have began focusing youth more on small game hunting...we still need hunters!).
I am not right or wrong, just an opinion like the rest of you. At least we care.

Great post!  Well stated!   

[idratherb]

Well said GobbleGitr 

[freakyhen]

How can we do our part when it comes to this issue?
Had a few thoughts on this one
Given the recent increase in popularity of turkey hunting as well as traveling to hunt turkeys I think it's important that everyone who cares about the wild turkey to examine their overall impact to the state of the turkey. It's vital that everyone who is passionate about turkey hunting give back to the bird more than they take right now.
What does that mean for ME? Trap more, manage predators, do everything in my power to encourage nesting/brooding habitat management, contact local DNR to propose change, don't support people and organizations that aren't looking out for the wild turkey, maybe not travel to hunt as much.
Simply put tend to the part of the garden that I can touch and do my part.
I enjoy traveling to hunt just as much as the next guy but it seems we have gotten to a point where people are doing it now just to "cross off" another state to complete a milestone. Maybe a more worthwhile milestone is making a change in the state i call home and managing more for turkey in the few acres I can


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[eggshell]

I agree with you guys that GobbleGitr  has it down pretty well. I am also in the camp that there are no quick, easy or permanent fixes. I firmly believe much of the decline is the natural establishment of a carrying capacity. We all had hoped for it to be sustainable at a higher rate, but saddly the habitat isn't there. We saw huge booms that drove very dense populations for a while. It's kind of like a chef fixing a huge luxury dinner that he envisions feeding hundreds, but what he doesn't know is people are taking the dishes and consuming them faster than he is fixing them. This is what happened to our habitat, it was being consumed and declining while we were experiencing record flocks. Well the day came there was not enough of that feast left to sustain the guest, so the host cut the guest list down to what they could feed. Our habitat, is being developed, harvested and invaded at a rate higher than restoration. You may point to thousands of acres of growing timber and say, look at all that woods regrowing and think it's habitat, but it's not. True turkey habitat in the east means a mix of mature trees, mixed grass fields and brushy escape/nesting habitat. Many of the forest have only one of these elements. Our state and federal agencies are cutting much of the public land down. The dollar bill rules in this world and conservation is taking a back seat to funding.

Now to hunter's impacts. I do not think harvest rates are a major problem across the board. They may be in isolated places, but the kill will folllow the availability. when populations drop and success rates fall, hunters hunt less or move to other areas. I think that just being in the woods and being disruptive is as much a factor as killing. This is compounded when less hunters are successful and just keep going. When they were filling tags fast the woods emptied fast. I think it's a stronger strategy to shorten seasons then to reduce bag limits. In these times habitat is capital. With more people land will be in demand for development and high tiimber prices will tempt landowner to turn trees into cash.

I am blessed to enjoy the fruits of well managed land. I hunt approximately 1500 acres of land that has had a management plan for at least 75 years and I can tell you I have not seen the same response of the turkey flock the nation has. Every year you can bet on about the same number of birds being there and it's a higher density then the properties surrounding it. Habitat mangement works!!

This is a complex problem and the social media guys are only a complication, like pneumonia in a cancer patient. Of course pneumonia will kill a weakened patient.

[NCL]

Eggshell.

Very well stated

[GobbleGitr]

Thanks Eggshell, good adds to the discussion and not a quick fix is right.