Pushing Season Start Dates Back...

[Tom007]

NJ pushed the opener later by one week. We will see how this works out in the long run. Hopefully it allows more hens to get bred.

[PNWturkey]

Many states have the pushed back season start dates that you describe.

Here is a map that I made for 2021:

That map isnt correct. Kansas has folks start April 1 with youth and disabled. Then archery starts April 8th.

I do find it somewhat funny that when our season ran the 2nd wednesday in april to May 15th we had birds. Then we really liberalized seasons spring and fall and bird numbers have decreased since.

The map is for general season start dates.

I think it would get too complicated to add youth season, archery, etc.

Plus, arguably the small number of gobblers killed during youth season would not significantly affect overall breeding...

[PNWturkey]

We also hear about habitat loss, but turkeys will thrive in small urban woodlots all across the country.

I'm on the same page with you about the "habitat loss" theory.

Obviously turkeys need habitat (food/water/roosting/brood rearing/etc.), but they can thrive in some pretty surprising human-altered environments!

For example, this photo is from a few weeks ago, around the corner from my house.

[MO_HUNTER]

I wish I lived in that neighborhood. That is awesome!

[johnski]

Look at States like Connecticut, Vermont, and Maine with a booming population right now even though they have the same start dates as Pa with a more Northern latitude.
And we are all in the same boat with fur prices in the crapper, increased ground and aerial predators.......so something else is going on.
We also hear about habitat loss, but turkeys will thrive in small urban woodlots all across the country.
Hopefully this widespread population downturn is a result of disease or neonics or something else that can be controlled and possibly move on from this.

Having lived in Connecticut for 16 years I would have to disagree about there being a booming population.  From what I have seen numbers, at least in the eastern half of the state, have dropped significantly in that time.  For some reason I can't figure out they increased tags and moved the start date from early May to the last week in April. 

[Sixes]

I hope all of you guys that agree with the loss of season and limits realize that 99% of the time when the state(s) reduce seasons and limits, if the population booms again, you will NOT get back anything that was lost.

[Mallard1897]

Look at States like Connecticut, Vermont, and Maine with a booming population right now even though they have the same start dates as Pa with a more Northern latitude.
And we are all in the same boat with fur prices in the crapper, increased ground and aerial predators.......so something else is going on.
We also hear about habitat loss, but turkeys will thrive in small urban woodlots all across the country.
Hopefully this widespread population downturn is a result of disease or neonics or something else that can be controlled and possibly move on from this.

Having lived in Connecticut for 16 years I would have to disagree about there being a booming population.  From what I have seen numbers, at least in the eastern half of the state, have dropped significantly in that time.  For some reason I can't figure out they increased tags and moved the start date from early May to the last week in April.

I've had trouble understanding all the regulation changes in CT in recent years. Based on the data over the past several years (harvests, poult surveys, etc.) CT turkey populations has been stable to slightly decreasing of late. Why they would choose to enact these changes (combining/increasing state/private bag limits, allowing all day hunting, combining turkey tags with pheasant tags, etc.) when they already had data showing a population decrease is beyond me. Never got a decent answer from the state biologist for the aformentioned changes.

Best guess is the legislators push for increased limits to try to cut down on urban "problem turkeys".

From my experience, the season opening is pretty decent. With only a handful of days open in April as opposed to opening on the 1st, I'm not sure how much of a negative impact on breeding those few days have. Since we never get the last week of May I wouldn't be opposed to shifting it later though especially if it helped reducing breeding disturbance. Here em blowing it it up the first week of June when fishing almost every year.

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[redleg06]

I think it would help and, if that's the case, I'm all for it.  Moving the seasons back (in the states that aren't already) to align with the science seems like a no-brainer, if we're taking our feelings out of it and just being logical. As much as I like to shoot them, I'm at the point where I'm more concerned about my boys being able to still chase them 10-20 years from now.

I'd like them to be more proactive with it honestly.  I read Dr. Chamberlin's presentation to the Alabama Advisory board and while they did make an adjustment (this was in 2020 prior to the change we saw take effect this year), they took a step but it was a small one.  His recommendation for this area (Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc), based on the research, was a Mid-April start date but they moved it to April 1 for public and March 25th on private.

This isn't from Dr. Chamberlin but a quote I found addressing the same issue:
"Wild turkeys are the only gamebird hunted almost exclusively during their spring breeding season.  The statewide average for peak nest initiation in Alabama is the second week in April, and most of the state's spring turkey hunting season opens nearly a month prior to this peak. Every season, over 43% of our total season harvest occurs before April 1, well before peak nest initiation. Ongoing research suggests moving the season opening toward peak nest initiation date to maximize the potential for gobblers to breed with hens prior to harvest."

[Marc]

I feel habitat and weather are the single largest factors in breeding success.

I would think that population comparisons between public areas and non-hunted private areas could be used to assess population trends and potential differences in decreased hunting pressure.

[guesswho]

You take an animal that's not that hard to kill to begin with, then increase pressure, reduce habitat and deploy tactics to make them even easier to kill!   What could possibly go wrong?    I start seeing breeding in mid to late February every year.   I saw my first poults of the year this week.    I don't think moving the starting dates back are going to correct the trend we are seeing.   In my opinion they're chasing the wrong rabbit.   

[Hook hanger]

States might as well go to a fall gobbler only season!

[redleg06]

I feel habitat and weather are the single largest factors in breeding success.

I would think that population comparisons between public areas and non-hunted private areas could be used to assess population trends and potential differences in decreased hunting pressure.

I've definitely hunted both lightly hunted/well managed private and also public that gets hammered. There's a stark difference in the number of birds. Same concept as when you are able to get away from pressure on public land(it's harder to do now than even when I moved to bama 10 years ago). Popular spots (easy access) public spots vs spots that don't get much pressure, you can tell a noticeable difference. Not just in gobbling activity but just bird numbers (talking hens, jakes, and gobblers) and turkey sign in general...the habitat is largely the same in the areas I'm comparing.   

[redleg06]

You take an animal that's not that hard to kill to begin with, then increase pressure, reduce habitat and deploy tactics to make them even easier to kill!   What could possibly go wrong?    I start seeing breeding in mid to late February every year.   I saw my first poults of the year this week.    I don't think moving the starting dates back are going to correct the trend we are seeing.   In my opinion they're chasing the wrong rabbit.   

Supply and Demand-  the supply isn't increasing and the demand is. 

I don't think that moving the season dates back is a magic bullet but I think it could help.  I think to really do it right its going to take things like this (maximizing the breeding opportunities), habitat improvement, predator management (meaning a sincere focused effort, at the right time of year, not JUST shooting one if it happens across your path), stop shooting jakes (need them to breed and, according to the science, can't until their 2nd year), and less demand (harvest numbers reduced).  The problem with just reducing the bag limit is that there aren't that many people running around killing 4 every season....what there IS a lot more of, over the last 10 years IMO, is a lot of people killing 1 or 2. I think turkey hunting has gotten much more popular and that's played a role- certainly on public land.

[guesswho]

Agree on all points.

[dirtnap]

You take an animal that's not that hard to kill to begin with, then increase pressure, reduce habitat and deploy tactics to make them even easier to kill!   What could possibly go wrong?    I start seeing breeding in mid to late February every year.   I saw my first poults of the year this week.    I don't think moving the starting dates back are going to correct the trend we are seeing.   In my opinion they're chasing the wrong rabbit.