What do you think ...

[guesswho]

Easy answer for me with or without a 6" rule.    Pass, pass and pass.   Pulling the trigger is not a snap decision for me.   It's either my training, or those two little words a lot of people lose while hunting, common sense.   In all the years I've been doing this I have never felt pressured into making a quick shooting decision.   And to justify such a decision with I like to eat turkey, is just lame.  And if I found myself in these snap decision positions on a regular basis I'd start to think that something I'm doing or not doing might be the cause.

[guesswho]

I am kind of slow . 

I get the whole wasted bird etc.   And agree it's a valid concern.   And I think you have missed my original point.   The random spur length comment was meant as a fail safe for someone who killed a 5 1/2" beard.   My point was to try to make second spring gobblers legal, and protect first spring gobblers.   Never meant it as a checklist.   

[TrackeySauresRex]

  Voted No.

However, I do like the yes vote.

I don't shoot Jake's. I like leaving the little ones for the little ones. I did shoot a Jake a few years back. STUFF happenS. I had a bird gobbling like mad and he ran in. My emotions got the best of me and let him have it. It was the wrong bird.

We've all seen a mature full fan Tom with a shortie out there.

What will "A" 70 yard tss hero shooter do? Many times He's not going to have a good assessment.
^JMHO

[MISSISSIPPI Double beard]

At 70 yards it would be kinda hard to see a 4 inch beard without bino's.

[bwhana]

Having been a part of the early days of the QDMA and implementing it, any restrictions must be EASY to determine in the field under most circumstances by even inexperienced hunters (low light, thick vegetation).  Limiting harvest to an 6 or 8 pt or better or a 15" wide rack (easier, but not perfect, since the vast majority of deer have a 14-15" wide ear spread).  Applying these restrictions in deer seen easy to teach and use, but finding something similar in turkeys is not easy, nor practical.

So far in this and other threads, no one has been able to present any options that can be easily implemented in the field by inexperienced hunters (get out of your experienced head and look at this through a brand new hunter's eyes) and are not viable for that reason.  In turkey hunting situation, how are you going to realistically teach hunters how to judge a +6" beard - what are the indicators on a live bird that you can use to determine that quickly in the field - head and neck length vs the beard, extended versus question mark mode?  A full fan sounds like the perfect solution at first, but if the bird is not strutting, 95% won't be able to tell and they are just not capable of glassing or seeing the tail feather notch when tucked.  Factor in higher vegetation and the beard and fan are out the window too.  Beard length is not always accurate either, with some mature gobblers missing a beard completely or very short.  A jake head "look" versus a gobbler head is a fairly accurate indicator, but the occasional super jake will mess up that one too.  I have seen them put on a show that matched any gobbler and the only difference between them was the tail feathers. Spurs are just too small to use as a field judging guide and I have seen toms without any spurs.

Most here have said they support youth, first time hunters, etc., be able to take jakes.  The reality in QDMA was that hunters want the same with small bucks, but what really happens is most hunters abuse it and you end up with even more small bucks taken on clubs than before they went to QDMA.  Most states have a youth turkey season, and they should be able to take any male bird during those seasons only, but not during the entire season, if you want to restrict jake harvests.  There is zero biological evidence to date that indicates limiting jake harvests contributes to increasing overall population except in extreme situations, it just adds some 2 year olds for the next season, and many of them wont even make it to that time. This is about as good as wearing grandmas t-shirt covid mask - zero science, all show.  Add in the fact that a hen only needs to be bred a single time each spring and she is good for fertilizing her eggs for 30-50 days, and that most of our seasons are set to start after breeding has been going on for at least a few weeks, taking out jakes, or gobblers, makes no difference on the population ongoing - that is a another issue.

Sadly, in places like Florida Osceola lands or Goulds in the SW, the only real answer is to go to a full lottery system with residents getting the most tags and severely cut the nonresident opportunities and reduce all harvests. Scream all you want people, but the time for this is way overdue.  Anything less is just window dressing until the resource is gone completely, and you can talk about the good old days when you could hunt Osceolas openly and then had to put in for tags instead of talking about the day they went extinct.

[cracker4112]

Florida hunter here, and I vote no, for sure.  Not only is it impractical, we don't need any more rules down here, they are hard enough to follow as it is.

I'm hunting an old bird right now that has giant hooks and virtually no beard.  I called him into range with two jakes and once I was ready to shoot they grouped up, got nervous not seeing a hen, and quit strutting.  I couldn't tell them apart with their movements and the grass was too high to see his spurs, so they all got to live another day. I don't see why there should be a law to prevent him from being legal.

But I also don't mind a new hunter or a kid taking a jake for their first, I don't think it hurts a thing.  IMO most guys aren't after jakes so a mistake or new/young hunters should not be penalized.

Oh and the FWC has no idea how many turkeys are taken on public land each year, and less of an idea what's happening on private.  The new tag system is long overdue.

[Marc]

If a scumbag would leave a bird rot he's likely up to no good anyway!

Hunting with a kid on a WMA with a check station...  Kid shoots the closest bird instead of the long-beard...  I would guess the majority of hunters are not checking that bird out, knowing there will be a fine.

[Cowboy]

I personally have no problem with a no Jake's rule with the exception of let a youth hunter take a Jake.  Given a little experience after a few Jake's under their belts, the kids will want to take a longbeard as well.

Agreed with Goosebat on this statement.  Youth hunters need to be able to have success easy on I think to show the seed so to speak.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Cowboy]

I hate spellcheck. EARLY ON TO SOW THE SEED

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[Howie g]

It's really not rocket science.... Either a 6 inch beard , or a full fan .  IMO if you can't determine either?
You shouldn't be shooting anyways .

[WV Flopper]

 I have seen well over a hundred turkeys flop that did not strut.

I have flopped quit a few short beards with 1 1/4" spurs.

So, we should let these old gobblers walk because they have a short beard and have been beat down by more dominate birds?Maybe the WV and Va birds I routinely hunt are not the same as the rest of the country, but I don't want a law here like that.

I can say, what we call beard rot may not happen in the south as it does here. I don't remember seeing any color in the beards of turkeys I have killed in Florida. But, regardless, the post dominate bird still is relevant. But most won't understand that.

[g8rvet]

Of the four public locales I hunt in North Florida, only one has a manned check station.  I do understand central and south are different.  I voted no.  My daughter is 28 and only recently decided she would shoot a bird.  If she gets a legit chance at a jake, I will encourage her to let it fly.  She did pass on a jake at 40 yards, which her gun will easily do, but she felt it was too far.  Proud of her. 

My nephew killed a hard gobbling bird on the manned check station area.  He was in full strut, gobbled his head off on the way in, but never turned, was in very thick vegetation and he craned his neck up and offered a good shot and he killed him.  We were both stunned it was a super jake. He might have actually made the 6" limit, it would have been close.  Of course, he could have waited and maybe we could have figured it out. 

I have had private places I hunt that were loaded with jakes one year and no gobblers the next.  Does not mean they did not survive on move on.  I just balk at increased regulations.  I also do not care for South and Central Florida's problems leading to tighter regulations for us in the North.  Happened with ducks (early wood duck season) and was problematic for trout and reds until they created smaller zones. 

Most deer hunters I know pass on small bucks.  Most turkey hunters I know pass on jakes. Isn't that good enough?

[Howie g]

I can only attest for what I see here in the dirty south .
The jake law is the single best law we have .
Even way before we had the jake law , grown men shooting jakes was frowned upon .

[Marc]

What would be the goal of a 6" rule?  In the overall scheme of things, I do not see it making a difference in turkey populations. 

It reduces opportunities for young or new hunters...  And, if someone shoots a "short" bird, and thinks there is any chance they will get checked, they will leave it lie, and probably not count it towards there quota.

Plus, it is my understanding that a second year bird has a better chance of breeding and surviving to the next season than does a jake (although I could be mistaken on that point).

First and foremost concentrate on habitat improvement which will go further to improve turkey numbers than any regulations on hunting...  And if turkey numbers are low enough that harvest numbers do make a difference, reduce harvest quota's and season length...

[Ihuntoldschool]

No biological basis for it. I don't see any need for regulating beard length.  Tagging a young gobbler has its own biological advantages.