The numbers don’t lie

[FLGobstopper]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Hey Shane, would love to hear more insight from you. Feel free to PM me if you'd like. Just curious, do you think the stats shared in this podcast are wrong? If so then it seems that the show hosts as well as the person they're are interviewing are nothing but outright liars. That's a pretty strong accusation and one that I would imagine those with a platform wouldn't want to step in unless they're pretty comfortable defending with additional and or more concrete information.

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching yours, as well as several others videos over the past few years. I believe you and some of the few others I've watched have a love for the hunt, and typically respect the bird, the resource and other hunters as well. Unfortunately, there have been others increasing in frequency as of late that I cannot say the same for.

I think in moderation when done properly some of these channels can be a useful tool in advocating ethical, sustainable hunting, the animals we pursue and the lifestyle and or way of life that many of us value, know and live. And when I use the word advocate please know I use and choose that word very carefully! Because, I see a big difference between advocating and promoting. Typically an advocate is one who is speaking up for or stepping out on behalf of another.

I think that was some of the enjoyment many had initially at some of the YT channels that night and day different from the promoted hunting shows on TV which has become more about promoting the hunter than anything else. I see a big difference between between promoters and advocates as Promoters, it appears are simply more about pushing someone, or something simply for their own gain. Sure it might look good in certain light and from certain angles, but they care little for the shadows that is cast. When the one trophy or achievement is obtained they just move on to the next.

So again, there are some things that could be very beneficial from your insight from you and a few of the others and I'd love to hear it. If you have other information that disputes some of this other information and brings more clarity to some of these issue and particularly the information shared in the Podcast mentioned I'd love to see it as well.

As a resident hunter of FL some information was shared that is absolutely in line with what myself and many others have been feeling, witnessing and saying for a while now.  As a resident public land hunter I can tell you we've been losing more and more every year. To say I'm concerned for what's going to happen in 2022 would be mild.

However, I'm a bit "hypocritical" (you should go back and listen to the entire recent Chubbs episode if you haven't) because I'm a frequent non-resident hunter in GA and have my concerns  there as well as the other states i get to occasionally visit as time permits. At the end of the day myself and many others are losing time and opportunity at an ever increasing rate. We have valid and real concerns.

The way things are going it would be great to join together and advocate for and with one another (which I'm all for) instead of pointing fingers and calling names . Lots of information and misinformation floating around and being spewed from too many angles and we have to many problems going on for all us it seems. The token stance, "you just do you", or "you just do it your way and don't worry about what or how others do it" isn't doing a great job of bringing any of us together.

So, I'm open as long as long as in agreement we're fighting for, or advocating for something together vs I'm just fighting for my own thing, or my way, or myself on my own.

[FLGobstopper]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

An email address is given at the end of this podcast with an invitation to any influencers to come on the show to defend their position. We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you for the clarification. Would love to hear this.

[TurkeyReaper69]

In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

Yeah no big deal Shane, just a little bit of money to reimburse on travel expenses and licenses. Meanwhile I bust my  9 months out of the year to enjoy my spring season. And it angers me that state wildlife agencies are using my license money to fund this stuff! If a guy wants to film YouTube videos that's fine, but having a partnership with a state game agency really? Perhaps you didn't get to the point in the podcast when the cause/effect of the Arizona Coues deal partnership with Randy Newberg was mentioned. You know damn well there's a huge difference between a billboard and when a state pays a group to come exploit their state and rack in hundreds of thousands of views showcasing that state. Also how ironic is it TN cut their bag limit while simultaneously paying THP? What a joke. C'mon man don't act like we are all dumb and blind to what's going on, and at least act like you care a little about the common folk.

[Crghss]

One thing I'd like to point out is wild game as a resource belongs to everyone in the state. Not just the resident hunter or fisherman of that state.

I will use Florida, my state as an example. We have a mini lobster season for two days. People come from all over to participate, GA, LA, AL, Carolina's. They obviously harvest a disproportionality large number of lobsters and drag them home. Would I love if they closed this season (2 days) or limited it? It would greatly benefit me as there would be more lobster for me to harvest over the season and bag limits could be higher.

But guess what people. Those lobster belong to everyone in FL. They belong to hotel owners that rent to out of state folks. They belong to the restaurant/bar owners who sell food & drink too people that show up for mini season. They belong to the dive & boat shops that cater these folks also.

Osceola turkeys, would I love for them to limit access or issue permits to residents only. Absolutely, be crazy not too. But those turkeys belong to everyone. People pile into the state for turkey also. And it directly impacts people's livelihood.

If COVID showed anything it is how thin of a margin some small businesses have. 

Does government need to balance these things to protect the resources and have even distribution of resources. Yes, its why they are there and have the jobs they do.

But there job is not to make it easier for locals to harvest game. Me included.

[simpzenith]

In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

Yeah no big deal Shane, just a little bit of money to reimburse on travel expenses and licenses. Meanwhile I bust my  9 months out of the year to enjoy my spring season. And it angers me that state wildlife agencies are using my license money to fund this stuff! If a guy wants to film YouTube videos that's fine, but having a partnership with a state game agency really? Perhaps you didn't get to the point in the podcast when the cause/effect of the Arizona Coues deal partnership with Randy Newberg was mentioned. You know damn well there's a huge difference between a billboard and when a state pays a group to come exploit their state and rack in hundreds of thousands of views showcasing that state. Also how ironic is it TN cut their bag limit while simultaneously paying THP? What a joke. C'mon man don't act like we are all dumb and blind to what's going on, and at least act like you care a little about the common folk.

I simply stated a fact that many did not know, not making light of it. I've been approached to promote a state in the past but declined because I didn't want to be "working" while I was trying to hunt and enjoy myself. That particular state was going to use funds from their "Tourism Department", not their "Wildlife Department", to pay me. I don't know the details of the TN/THP promotion you mentioned.

[Paulmyr]

One thing I'd like to point out is wild game as a resource belongs to everyone in the state. Not just the resident hunter or fisherman of that state.

I will use Florida, my state as an example. We have a mini lobster season for two days. People come from all over to participate, GA, LA, AL, Carolina's. They obviously harvest a disproportionality large number of lobsters and drag them home. Would I love if they closed this season (2 days) or limited it? It would greatly benefit me as there would be more lobster for me to harvest over the season and bag limits could be higher.

But guess what people. Those lobster belong to everyone in FL. They belong to hotel owners that rent to out of state folks. They belong to the restaurant/bar owners who sell food & drink too people that show up for mini season. They belong to the dive & boat shops that cater these folks also.

Osceola turkeys, would I love for them to limit access or issue permits to residents only. Absolutely, be crazy not too. But those turkeys belong to everyone. People pile into the state for turkey also. And it directly impacts people's livelihood.

If COVID showed anything it is how thin of a margin some small businesses have. 

Does government need to balance these things to protect the resources and have even distribution of resources. Yes, its why they are there and have the jobs they do.

But there job is not to make it easier for locals to harvest game. Me included.

I hunt as a non resident when time allows. Usually when you hear this argument it's based on resident hunters feelings compared to NR's talking about the the money they spend on out of state trips. The residents in turn poo poo said money as insignificant. The ownership of game not only being for resident hunters but for everybody in the state is an interesting angle. Food for thought. I think your take on the matter has merit specifically as a resident hunter.

[Fdept56]

Why don't some states allow the picking of mushrooms or ginseng from public grounds? I would assume it's because they know someone will start picking and selling to profit from public grounds. That mushroom or ginseng belongs to everyone right? But the removal of it is a negative to the landscape and an over abundance of people would result in total removal.

What if a state opened up for people to get whatever they wanted and then someone filmed a video about this? Wouldn't anyone that's super interested and watched the video want to go do that? The resource would be gone in a very short amount of time if too many people did this.

I know it's not a perfect analogy because we pay money to be able to remove turkeys from the landscape, but we've seen what happens when too many are removed and I'm afraid we're not far from that point again. We're going to keep seeing shorter and shorter seasons, lower bag limits, and more restrictions. More people will never equal more turkeys. Also, why should some get to profit from lands that everyone owns, from animals that everyone owns, and then cause less opportunity for anyone who does it strictly for the enjoyment.

I don't put all the blame on youtubers, I know it is mostly social media, this site included, but when something becomes the cool thing to do and people start doing anything they can just so people think they are good at something, it's never good for anyone.

I had some of the greatest times of my life when I was younger hunting ducks in flooded timber. I never even bought my stamps last year because of what that's become from too many people getting involved, and it saddens me that my children will never get to experience what I have. If we're not already at that point with turkeys, we're dang close.

[Crghss]

I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

[El Pavo Grande]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Why is raising legitimate concerns or questioning the effects of social media considered bashing or complaining?  That's the standard go to.  Should we as invested turkey hunters, who view the resource and future of turkey hunting as a top priority, just turn our heads?  As a YouTube hunter why don't you address the negatives with a well thought out response here on this forum or why don't you seek out the invitation to the podcast?  I enjoy watching hunts, but beyond the enjoyment it brings, there's the reality that it's not all positive.  Provide the positives for the resource that results from promoting public land turkey hunting?   As one fellow YouTube videographer has been quoted, "I don't hear the state of XYZ complaining" in reference to to revenue increases from a huge increase in license sales.   Could this provide a positive?  Sure, but at what expense overall?  If the argument for one positive is increased hunter recruitment, should the same apply to all game being hunted?  I'd argue that increased turkey hunter recruitment, or more over an exponential increase in public land hunting, has played a role in the decrease in hunter opportunity.  As the podcast shared with Georgia, the biologist stated the limited opportunity is a direct result of the increase in public land pressure.  And no one is saying declining populations don't play a big role in increased restrictions.  It's not just YouTube.  FB posts or forum posts with specific information or pictures at WMA signs for thousands to see are selfish and irresponsible.  Someone, anyone, please convince me of one positive this provides.   

This was a great podcast and I applaud them for addressing and discussing the topic.  It coincides with what we ignorant "bashers" and "complainers" have been saying for a while. 

[El Pavo Grande]

I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

All the more reason for ALL turkey hunters to be responsible.  "We're all going to just have to deal with it."  Is that truly how you feel?   Not one person I've seen has claimed hunting is THE cause of the decline.  Not sure how many times this has to be stated.  I wouldn't argue with you on the reasons stated as contributing to the decline.  But, sticking our head in the sand and saying, "oh well, it's just a sign of the times" is a dangerous game to play.   Let's do that and see where we are in 5 to 10 years, if not sooner.  Normal growth in turkey hunter numbers, which equates to increased hours hunted, is sustainable with declines in turkey population.  What we have seen over the last few years, most notably within the last 4-5 years, is beyond that.   

[Jrkimbrough]

The fact that states are exploiting a declining resource is VERY disturbing to me regardless of what department is funding it.  Especially when it gets to the point of having to change regulations due to the extra influx of pressure created by the influencers!

There is a difference between advertising your beaches, restaurants and theme parks VS a resource like deer or turkey.

Why not put that money paid to influencers to get more boots on the ground to enforce poachers and those breaking the law?!


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[Paulmyr]

Not saying that it's right  but boots on the ground doesn't sell motel rooms and steaks at the local restaurant. It's sounds to me like typical gov't. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[turkeyfool]

As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

[guesswho]

As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

Hadn't thought about that.   It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[FL-Boss]

X2 ... with everything leaning more and more left/woke... I wouldn't worry about YouTube much. I suspect anything related to guns and hunting to be banned from YouTube in the near future. 
I don't hunt public and don't have a dog in this fight.. but if you want to blame something, blame the hunt apps like OnX, etc.  That really ruined it for so many local guys that had their favorite public land honey holes..

As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years