Kentucky Limits

[Cowboy]

Read an article yesterday saying Kentucky Game Commission was considering a one bird limit next year?I thought KY was doing well. True or did I misread the article?

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[Pluffmud]

Turkey populations before the urbanization of North America was I believe around 10 million birds. Around the start of the NWTF, the population was around 1.5 million birds. The population rebounded greatly and peaked at around 6.7 million. Now, we are seeing numbers around 6 million. I think what we are seeing regulation wise across the states are knee jerk reactions out of fear that turkeys are going to disappear again or are well on their way to extinction. I believe that turkeys rebounded past their carrying capacity in certain habitats, and naturally you are seeing numbers ebb and flow. As we move forward, I believe we definitely need to keep an eye on the situation, however I think we are seeing regulations succumb to popular opinion rather than repeatable evidence. Turkey numbers have increased in some areas and decreased in others. We will see what happens.

[Hook hanger]

Going to a 1 bird limit in every state wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit.

[GobbleNut]

I think it is safe to say that turkey hunter numbers are increasing.  Not only that, but it appears the number of turkey hunters that are now traveling to other states to hunt is also on the increase.   I think part of what we are seeing in terms of reduced bag limits is a response to the reality that there are more turkey hunters and that more pressure is being put on the resource in a lot of places. 

Wildlife managers, under the conditions we are now facing with increasing demand and decreasing resource, are faced with making management decisions based on either "quality" or "quantity".  In other words, do we want to give those increasing numbers of hunters a better chance at a quality hunting experience,....i.e...the likelihood of hearing and having more turkeys to hunt,...or do we want to continue to have higher individual bag limits resulting in more turkeys being killed, which in turn, reduces the "quality" aspect of the hunt,...i.e...having fewer gobbling turkeys in the woods for those increasing numbers of hunters to pursue. 

The trend we are seeing in wildlife management is that the "quality" philosophy is overriding that "quantity" philosophy,...and especially in those places where the resource is stagnant or decreasing.  In addition, the mindset of the new generation of wildlife professionals, many of whom have not been raised in a hunting environment, does not necessarily relate to the past adage that "good hunters should be able to take more game because,...well, they are "good hunters!". 

We have heard the argument right here on OG that "10% of the hunters kill 90% of the birds".  That may well be true, and that fact is only exacerbated when you allow that 10% to keep killing turkeys when the other 90% is not.  Again, I think the trend in wildlife management is to "spread the wealth" to give those increasing numbers of hunters a better chance of success. 

For those of us that lived through the "glory years" of turkey hunting with lots of opportunity and high bag limits, that fact may not set too well.  The reality today, though, is that "the times,...they are a changin'".  Better get used to it....   

[PNWturkey]

Going to a 1 bird limit in every state wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit.

If the harvest of gobblers is timed correctly (after all the hens are bred), you could in theory harvest every single gobbler in the entire state, and the jakes this year would do the breeding the following year (as 2-year-olds).

So, IMO, it is more an issue of timing the harvest rather than enacting stricter limits...

[GobbleNut]

Going to a 1 bird limit in every state wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit.

If the harvest of gobblers is timed correctly (after all the hens are bred), you could in theory harvest every single gobbler in the entire state, and the jakes this year would do the breeding the following year (as 2-year-olds).

So, IMO, it is more an issue of timing the harvest rather than enacting stricter limits...

I agree,...but that entire premise was based on continuing reproductive success in any give turkey population over time.  We are seeing increasing concern that some regions are experiencing too many consecutive years where that population recruitment is not keeping up with the gobbler harvest that is taking place on a yearly basis.  Again, there reaches a tipping point where that has to be taken into account. 

...And again, the solution lies in addressing the issue of reproductive success, but until that happens, the only recourse is to reduce gobbler harvest or go back to supplementing bird numbers artificially where needed (i.e...transplants). 

[PNWturkey]

This thread begs the question:

What percent of overall turkey harvest is from hunters harvesting 2+ birds?

Would be interesting to see this data on a state-by-state basis!

i.e. if most of overall harvest is by hunters harvesting just 1 bird, then restricting bag limits to 1 bird obviously doesn't put much of a dent in the overall harvest and is just more of a political/PR/equity stunt...

[Cowboy]

Going to a 1 bird limit in every state wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit.

If the harvest of gobblers is timed correctly (after all the hens are bred), you could in theory harvest every single gobbler in the entire state, and the jakes this year would do the breeding the following year (as 2-year-olds).

So, IMO, it is more an issue of timing the harvest rather than enacting stricter limits...

One must take into consideration the low survival rate and nesting.

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[HookedonHooks]

Reducing bag limits would also lead to the inevitable, unreported harvest. How many guys that have shot two turkeys on their own private land are going to just up and stop killing a 2nd bird on their own land that may have sustainable to excellent turkey numbers because the state told them so?

Sure it'll slow down public land harvest, but those guys will continue to kill two on their private lands because they like hunting and they like to eat turkey.

Kansas is prime example of this, and I bet if you asked around small town bars during turkey season how they felt about the bag limit reduction from 2 to 1, they might just tell you they'd already shot three this year.

[Jstocks]

This thread begs the question:

What percent of overall turkey harvest is from hunters harvesting 2+ birds?

Would be interesting to see this data on a state-by-state basis!

i.e. if most of overall harvest is by hunters harvesting just 1 bird, then restricting bag limits to 1 bird obviously doesn't put much of a dent in the overall harvest and is just more of a political/PR/equity stunt...

I can assure you, those who kill more than one carry a much higher percentage of the overall harvest percentage wise.

[dg7mm08]

I have never been checked  or even seen a Wildlife Officer here in N.C. during the Turkey season . Reporting your harvest is pretty much the honor system I think .


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[Jimspur]

This problem might fix itself. What I mean by that is, yes we have more
traveling turkey hunters now than ever before. It seems to me that turkey
hunting is almost a fad now. If gobbler populations drop to where you would be lucky to hear one bird gobble, a lot of these traveling hunters would stop traveling. It would be too difficult and cost too much money
for too little chance of success.

High turkey populations have fueled a lot of this traveling, and that's all
a lot of these travelers know. They started hunting when populations were high. Older hunters were hunting before the population explosion and will
be less affected.

IMHO, I think that rather than reducing bag limits, we should look for ways to reduce hunter effectiveness.
This would include banning decoys, fanning, and shortening seasons.
IMO this will help populations more than reducing the bag limit.

I know some of you here don't like more regulations, but they're coming
whether you like them or not.

[TonyTurk]

If we really want to reduce hunter effectiveness, then ban turkey calls, camouflage, and firearms too.
Make everyone call with their natural voice, wear hunter orange, and use archery equipment.

Once the bans start, where do they stop?

[Jimspur]

If we really want to reduce hunter effectiveness, then ban turkey calls, camouflage, and firearms too.
Make everyone call with their natural voice, wear hunter orange, and use archery equipment.

Once the bans start, where do they stop?

I understand your point, I'm just saying that this would be more effective than reducing bag limits.

Another thing they could do if they could get all of the states together
would be to have 3 opening days across the country.
Southern states could open on April 1st, central states could open on
April 15th, and northern states could open on April 30th. That would
eliminate hopping around and hitting a bunch of different opening days.

I'm just trying to throw ideas out there because neither I nor anybody
else really knows what they should do.

I don't really care if they do anything. That was why I said it'll probably
fix itself. There will be less hunters and less turkeys, just like it used to be.
I'm ok with that.

TonyTurk - do you have any ideas about what they can or should do?

[Pluffmud]

It may not be popular opinion, but I am not for reducing success. I hunt turkeys to kill them. I greatly appreciate everything else... The woods coming to life as the sun rises, the time spent with friends, the calls, the people you meet. But, over time, if my chances continue to decline, there will come a point where the gun will hang up for good. The Southern Bobwhite Quail is a prime example. If turkeys ever get to a spot where action must be taken, reducing hunter effectively will simply drive people out of the sport, and the funds for the management of the birds will be driven away with the person that left. Hunters are directly responsible for the survival of game species. If it weren't for us, game would not exist. It's not smart to push people out.