Sumtoy is winning

[WTNUT]

When I started on this forum,  I had never heard of Sumtoy Customs.  I had turkey hunted for nearly 40 years and used a lot of gun and choke combos.    As has been noted in other threads,  you have to shoot each gun with a variety of chokes to see what the gun likes.   Nevertheless,  I thought I would update you on my efforts to find the right shell choke combo for my Benelli 828U Performance Shop Upland.

I have ordered Sumtoy,  Carlson, Jebs,  Indian Creek and Rob Roberts Chokes to try.   

Here is where I am (actually waiting for my arm to heal some the 828U is way too light to shoot as much as I did yesterday.

Indian Creek Turkey Choke .665:

This choke has been the second best I have found,  but in fairness I am not finished.  So far.,  it was terrible with Federal TSS 3 inch 7 shot.   The pattern was so bad that it would have been a waste of time to count the pellet holes.   I will still probably try it with Federal No. 9s.

it shot a good uniform pattern with Heavy-18 7 shot 3 inch shells.  217 in a 10 inch circle and 325 in 20 inch.   Going to try with No. 9 Heavy 18s

Rob Roberts .665

This choke was okay with one shell,  but it did not like the Federal TSS 7s or 9s with 3 inch shells.  Again the pellet count was so poor it was not worth counting. 

With Heavy-18 No. 7 shot was a good pattern,  but not outstanding.   It produced 123 in the 10 and 318 in the 20 inch circle.   Uniformity was good,  but not nearly as tight inside the 10 as the Indian Creek. 

I will note the Roberts T1 and T2 chokes were outstanding at 20 yards with pretty much any shell.  I didn't use the expensive TSS shells I used a lot of left over shells including Federal,  Winchester,  Remington and some reloads.   

JEBS .660 -  Before I say anything about my test,  I will note that by reputation JEBS makes great chokes.   But, for my gun it was like trying to go on a date with an ex-wife you never wanted to see again.   No shell combination worked in by gun with this choke.   The pellet count was by far the worst of any choke I tried.  Gun just didn't like it.   I have a JEBS .655 on the way but I can't see it being any better and will likely just return it rather than try it.

Sumtoy:

This choke worked well with pretty much any shell I have tried so far.

Heavy-18 No. 7 shot got a uniform pattern of 184 in the 10 and 342 in the 20. 
Federal TSS No. 9 was the best pattern of any choke and combo.  It was extremely uniform and resulted in 374 in the 10 and 653 in the 20.
Federal No. 7 resulted in 215 in the 10 and 375 in the 20.   

There are certainly a lot more pellets in the 9 shot shells,  but the 7s make a noticeably larger hole.   What do you prefer 7s or 9s? 

[Tom007]

7's are legal in my States that I hunt. Therefore, I prefer 7's, I get good patterns with them......

[Ozarks Hillbilly]

TSS 9's if legal were you hunt. Although isn't a upside-down 6 a 9?

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[ManfromGreenSwamp]

I have a Benelli SBE2 28"
I've run the gamut on shell/choke combos, nice to see your results for the Hevi-18.

I currently am shooting Hevi-18s #7s and Hevi-13 #7s depending on the situation.



Best combos I've found below for 3.5"

Hevi-18 #7:
Ported Hevishot .667 - 242 pellets 10"@40yrds

Hevi-13 #7:
Ported Hevishot .667 - 341pellets 10"@40yrds
IC .665 - 330 pellets 10"@40yrds

Hevi-Magblend 5,6,7
Carlson longbeard .665 - 257 pellets 10"@40yrds
IC .665 - 189 pellets 10"@40yrds

EDIT:
I have a Rob Roberts .650 I'm too scared to shoot lol


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[longbeards]

I have a RR .650 in my M1, it shoots TSS No 9 well,,,god assume pattern in 10 inch circle and fair 20 inch spread!! BUT this year I put together a M2 20 gauge,,,250 in 10 inch circle all day long with Sparrow Hawk handloads!! No 9!

[WTNUT]

I have a Benelli SBE2 28"
I've run the gamut on shell/choke combos, nice to see your results for the Hevi-18.

I currently am shooting Hevi-18s #7s and Hevi-13 #7s depending on the situation.



Best combos I've found below for 3.5"

Hevi-18 #7:
Ported Hevishot .667 - 242 pellets 10"@40yrds

Hevi-13 #7:
Ported Hevishot .667 - 341pellets 10"@40yrds
IC .665 - 330 pellets 10"@40yrds

Hevi-Magblend 5,6,7
Carlson longbeard .665 - 257 pellets 10"@40yrds
IC .665 - 189 pellets 10"@40yrds

EDIT:
I have a Rob Roberts .650 I'm too scared to shoot lol


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I need to look up the Heavy 13s.  I have not tried them.   Go ahead and shoot the Roberts.  It really isn't bad if you are worried about pushing that load through the .650.   The one that rocked my world was the Jebs.   It still hurts.   It may have just been too much constriction for my gun and that is why it didn't like it with any shell I tried.   I will post more in a day or so.

[squirrel_hunter]

I have shot a RR choke with TSS.  But I have for lead a bunch. He made me 12ga for my Winchester sx3 and my Remington SP 10ga. I don't live to far from his shop. I was out at his shop one day. Went outside  up on the hill thwre was a turkey gobbling right before season.

[ShootingABN!]

WTNUT thanks for sharing.

What is the constriction of the Sumtoy? Did I miss that?

[strum]

I just ordered  a sumtoy for my 870 its a .660   thanks fir the info ..  which constriction sumtoy you using?

[WTNUT]

 I need to look at the Sumtoy later today when I shoot more.   I don't know for sure.  I think I know but better to be certain.

[WTNUT]

This is a little delayed,  but have shot some more.   To answer some of the questions,  I have the Sumtoy .660 choke.   I am going to give you the pellet counts for each choke and have added some chokes since I last posted.

The first number is the pellet count in a 10 inch and the second is total within 20 inches.   One other important factor is that each choke shot a little different either left to right or high and low.  To make it a fair pattern test,   I cut out a doughnut.  The hole was 10 inches and the outer edge was 20 inches.  I laid the doughnut over the best area of shot on the board and drew a 10 and 20 inch circle before counting.   When I pick a choke I can sight in the gun to center the pattern.  Personally,  I like my gun shooting a little high.  I never aim on the gobbler's head,  but instead the neck.   At the end I will make some general observations.

Here are the 7 shot results:

217/325 Indian Creek with Heavy-18
I84/342 Sumtoy .660 Heavy -18
174/307 Carlson Longbeard Heavy-18
152/309 Carlson Heavyshot TSS Heavy-18
147/286 Sumtoy .660 Federal TSS
123/318 Roberts Heavy-18

Here are the 9 shot results:

418/648 Sumtoy with Heavy-18s
392/662 Carslon TSS with Heavy-18
374/653 Sumtoy with Federal TSS
242/572 Indian Creek .665 with Heavy-18
235/447 Carlson Longbeard Federal TSS
165/409 Carlson 409 Federal TSS
125/392 jebs .655 Heavy-18

When I finally finish testing I will post some pattern pics,  but here are some take aways.   First,  I think finding a choke that works with your gun is more important than shell selection.   For example,  the Sumtoy shoots pretty much every shell well,  and overall is the highest pellet count.   On the other hand, the JEBs will not shoot anything through that gun.  I didn't even post the numbers for the 10 other shots through a JEBS.   But, I had the .655 and the .660 JEBS and neither one created a pattern that was even suitable to hunt with for any game. 

Next, and maybe more important than pellet count is uniformity.  I will say the Carlson chokes all worked really well and may have had the most uniform patterns.  I need to lay several targets out and compare still yet,  but they were very impressive.   I have several Benelli's and Carlson Chokes have always been my go to,  and this test seems to remind me of why.   The Carlson TSS was the second highest count with 9 shot,  and I will have to compare it to the Sumtoy.   The biggest difference between these two is the Sumtoy seemed to shoot every shell brand and shot size extremely well.  The Carlson didn't shoot every brand and shot size as well,  but it may have out shined on pattern uniformity.

Next,  the Indian Creek had an extremely tight pattern when it work.  Maybe the tightest pattern cluster but it must blow out a number of pellets.   This choke would be the one most likely to kill a bird at 80 yards (now before anyone says anything,  I am not going to shoot at a bird at 80 yards,  nor should anyone).  My point is the patter is so tight at 40 yards that in theory you may have a lot of pellets still in the 10 at that distance.   The thing that I don't like about it is the uniformity.   It is a very narrow pattern.   It is good top to bottom but is very narrow.  Therefore,  even at 40 yards it would be easy to miss.   However,  next year I would certainly try some more Indian Creek constriction options.

Finally, some chokes just don't work as well as others in a gun.   The Roberts was a good choke.  If I didn't have the others to test,  I would feel comfortable hunting with it no doubt.  It is a good uniform pattern with all shells,  but the pellet count just does not come close to the Sumtoy,  Indian Creek or Carlson.    As state above my gun has an allergic reaction to a JEBS.   

Going to shoot some more later today.  Good luck to all.   

[WTNUT]

Okay,  I am finished testing and these are the final numbers to add to the post above.

I shot several shots through the Sumtoy choke and it was consistent with the numbers above.   After I sighted in I shot a final shot with Heavy 18s.  The number were really good. 
In the top barrel I shot 442 in the 10 inch and 680 in the 20 inch.  In the bottom barrel with the same choke it shot 365 in the 10 and 605 in the 20.   I shot some other shots to replicate and sure enough th choke always shot similar numbers in the top barrel and similar in the bottom.  The top barrel always out performed.  So even in the same gun two different barrels had a significant difference in pellet count while both were certainly great results to hunt with any day.

Finally,  the Carlson TSS shot 384/628. 

In the end the Sumtoy was undoubtedly my gun's favorite choke.   The Carlson was my gun's second favorite no doubt there either. 


Good luck with your tests.

[ManfromGreenSwamp]

GREAT write up!


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[strum]

 Im sorry forgive my ignorance here maybe i didnt read it right .. this is all at 40yards?

  I should have my choke tomorrow so im very curious to see what it does.

[WTNUT]

I actually don't think I added that detail.  Sorry,  yes every test was done at 40 yards.