Unethical Outfitter

[turkeygod4]

I just got back from an Osceola turkey hunt with a known outfitter. I arrived Thursday afternoon and got ready for an early morning.
Friday morning, we went to a 10 acre property that the guide owned (we'll get to why this in important later). He parked the truck and we walked a hundred yards or so to a palmetto blind. We did not hear any gobbles at daybreak. Once it was light enough to see well, I noticed a fence that was 42 yards out front and another one 25 yards to our left (I used rangefinder). The fence straight out was simple 4 strand barb wire which a bird could walk under while the fence to the left was hog wire and not bird would be walking under that. I asked about the fence because I know how stubborn birds can be with a fence. I was told it "wouldn't be a problem." We sat there all day and saw nothing. After a few hours sitting there I got curious and asked who owned the property on the other side of the fence. He told me it was XYZ State Park (no hunting allowed). I said to myself, great.

That evening I asked about going somewhere different as we did not see or hearing anything there the previous day. I was told the "birds are there, we need to be patient", I said ok. The Saturday morning, we headed to the same spot. As daybreak approached, we heard a few birds sound off but nothing close. We sat there till about 530pm before anything happened. After sitting there and calling off an on, a couple of toms appeared. I worked them for 30mins trying to get them across the dang fence. First they worked down the fence to our left (hog wire) I went silent for a bit and they began to work back up where they came also closer to the 4-strand wire fence. They got in front of us close to the fence when they guide began pressing me to shoot. I did not feel comfortable shooting across the fence line. He continued to pressure me to shoot, "shoot now, hurry up, shoot now." So I gave into the pressure and shot. I intentionally shot over the bird as I was comfortable with this situation.

After the shot the guide said "there goes $350." I asked him what that meant and he told me the owner gives him $350 per bird that's harvested there since its his property.

We got back to camp at sunset and I saw the owner was there so I thought I would have a chat with him about what happened. Well, I quickly realized he was already intoxicated and was fraternizing with another hunter so I did not approach him about this.
Sunday morning, I asked to go to another spot. The guide told me he had roosted 3 birds near the spot we'd been hunting and we should be able to get one. At daybreak we again heard a few birds gobbling, none of them were very close. After a few hours, I managed to yelp up a gobbler with a hen. The tom stayed about 80 yards out strutting for his hen and never paid us much interest besides the courtesy gobble. That was the extent of my hunt.

I returned to camp and packed up my gear. The owner was not there so I was left to deal with his business associate. He told me my remaining balance was $1400. I told him I shouldn't have to pay the remaining balance as I did not have an opportunity to cleanly harvest a gobbler. He disagreed and said "you shot at a bird yesterday didn't you?" I explained that I shot over a bird on purpose because the guide wanted me to make an illegal shot. I went on to explain that the location we were at puts a hunter in a difficult predicament. He said that someone shot a bird there last weekend just fine. I informed him that the guide had told me that hunter shot the bird across the fence and they both lied about it. He then called me a liar. I realized there was no talking to this guy so I got in my truck and began the 17 hour drive home.
I understand that nothing is guaranteed with an outfitter but one would think they would have their  together and could at least put you on property that has birds on it. I believe the guide kept taking me to that spot even after I asked to be taken to a different spot because he would collect additional money if I shot the bird from his property. I am beyond furious about the whole thing. What does the forum say?

[PalmettoRon]

Sounds like an awful hunt! I would have pulled the plug early and cut my losses. I did exactly that several years ago when a buddy and I paid an outfitter in NM to put us up in a bunk house, feed us and give us some prehunt scouting information, but otherwise turn us loose on the Gila. What a joke! The only info he had was from his wife who had seen a gobbler beside the black top a week earlier.

We got onto some birds on our own on the third morning, but pulled the plug, left and both scored on another public land area we had hunted in the past.The lodging was clean and the food was decent, but what we paid the guy for--narrowing our focus in the Gila was a total joke.

[TonyTurk]

Stinks to travel that far and pay that much for a poor experience.  If the entire hunt was going to consist of sitting in the same blind, on the same 10 acres, the outfitter should have told you that prior to the hunt, IMO.

[TauntoHawk]

That's rough, I would have been upset the moment the plan included a blind on 10acres. The urging to shoot over a line would have been a conversation right then and there

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[Tom007]

Hearing your story, and what you went through, you should somehow let others know who this guy is in your own way, so no one else gets stuck. I get it if you rather not say. Be safe my friend, best of luck ..

[Wvdanimal]

I'm not sure I have room to type all the shady stuff that goes on but it happens because the birds have value and hunters are willing to chance it for the slam. I know a guy who's "meals" consisted of grilled hot dogs and pb & jelly sandwiches, no bird. Next "outfitter" sat him on lawn chairs in a friend's backyard of a subdivision,  no bird. I could go on and on.  However, I will be the first to say that only 10 acres is plenty to get it done there in the right place.  One place my buddy has borders over a thousand acres w no trees. The birds head to the pasture all day but come to the half acre patch of trees on his place every evening. BUT, you screwed up when you took that shot, intentions aside. That told him he done his part and you couldn't seal the deal.

[FLGobstopper]

I've never paid for a guided hunt before but I have paid for a place to stay that had access to a pretty large amount of private land I could chase merriams on. I didn't pay near $1,400.00 and had I have paid even what I paid ($700 for 3 nights stay and 4 days to hunt) and arrived to find out I would only have access to 10 acres to hunt, I would of been pissed! That's absurd if you ask me and is NOT the kind of turkey hunting I would enjoy or feel satisfied with if I shot my last bird for my slam, some kind of a world record 2.5inch spurred, 15 bearded 35 pound behemoth gobbler or beautiful smoke phase or albino. That's just not for me!

I would bet a lot of people get caught up in the excitement and make the mistake often of not thoroughly checking out the outfitters they book with and aren't asking the right questions. Sorry about you lousy experience, but I'm guessing next time you'll probably have a lot more questions to ask before you book to make sure the outfitter you choose lines up with the experience you're hoping to take home with you regardless if you go home empty handed or not.

[Mossberg90MN]

Dang man that sucks! Yea maybe there's a way you can mention the outfitter so others can avoid them. I plan on doing an Osceola hunt in 2022 and I would hate to pick this place.


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[Howie g]

Sounds like a terrible experience!!
But I think you may have fowled up your chances of getting some of your money back by taking that shot .
In hind sight, you probably should have just stuck to your gut and told him NO ! I don't feel comfortable.

[Cowboy]

That's rough, I would have been upset the moment the plan included a blind on 10acres. The urging to shoot over a line would have been a conversation right then and there

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X 2.

[turkeygod4]

I don't mind saying if it helps someone out. This was at S&N Outfitters. I do agree that I'm on the hook for the money since I took a shot technically. I'm not too mad about the money as I make a good living but someone with not as much spending cash would be in a different boat. I had a good time other than the bad stuff that went down.
For the area, yes there were a lot of birds on the park across the fence.

I'm mostly upset as this would have been my first Osceola, completed my first slam, and would have been bird #100.

I will not be back with them that's for sure.

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[turkeyfool]

To play devils advocate, should you not have paid the remaining balance because you didn't have a chance to cleanly harvest a bird or because you sat in the same blind for 3 days? I see what you're saying but that almost makes it sound like if you did have a chance to shoot a gobbler fairly, you wouldn't have had an issue paying even if all of the poor aspects of this hunt (the blind, the property, etc) were still the same. In fairness, even if this outfitter busted their  the right way, it still shouldn't even remotely be a guarantee that you have a clean shot at a gobbler. I guess I'm just not a fan of outfitted hunts, especially when you can hit public land or knock on doors

[Wvdanimal]

All things considered, the thread could just as equally be titled "unethical hunter" considering you knowing pulled the trigger when you shouldn't have.  Like they say, you can never take a shot back. Learn from it and move on.

[Dtrkyman]

We need to know who it is.  Total B.S. pressuring you to shoot, if you would not have fired the "warning shot" you would have more ground to stand on.  I know hind sight.

I have been guiding for years and actually had clients not shoot across lines, I try to avoid hunting close but at some point you always wind up on a line.

[turkeygod4]

All things considered, the thread could just as equally be titled "unethical hunter" considering you knowing pulled the trigger when you shouldn't have.  Like they say, you can never take a shot back. Learn from it and move on.

Sure, I could agree to that. I gave in to the pressure and shot way over the bird or purpose just to shut up the guide. I admit I didn't handle that situation very well in the heat of the moment.

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