Turkey Population Decline?

[Turkeytider]

Mike Chamberlain described it best. " Death by a thousand cuts" . Multiplicity of factors, some more controllable than others. Weather, disease, bag limits and season start dates as related to breeding, predators. Poults/hen in the South and Southeast have been declining for at least a decade. There are pockets of relative abundance. Here in Georgia, though, you don`t have to hunt very hard to find folks who will tell you, " Nothing`s wrong, everything`s fine, more turkeys than ever. No changes needed at all".

[fallhnt]

Central Illinois is way down.  In the early 90s the coons got distemper and were wiped out, the turkeys exploded. Now coons skunks and possums are way up, bobcat and coyotes are thick and I think the bush honeysuckle is a problem, little to no ground cover.

What part of central IL ? Turkeys were released in the mid to late 80s and modern spring seasons opened in '94-'96 in the counties I live near. A growing, never been hunted, population was fun to hunt. But nature is leveling things out. IL is not a credible turkey hunting state but we hold our own. Public lands that I hunt have plenty of birds, spring and fall, but have continual habitat improvement. That and a spring permit draw system to level out pressure has helped us through the population short falls. A 9 day fall gun season is only available in counties with good populations,less than a 1/3 of the state,leaving fall archery hunters a bounty in fall. Good habitat in IL will carry approximately 30 birds per 1000 acres. I know of one public area that 1/3 of the population is killed every year. That's a very solid result. Hard to argue numbers like that.

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[Tom Threetoes]

I started hunting turkeys in the late 80s, for the next 20 plus years here in Southern IN the population increased till around 2005 or so. Since then numbers have been falling. Our property used to have a decent population but we've had to hunt else where if we expected to have any success. I never heard a gobble on our 80 last spring and it's in the middle of several hundred acres of great habitat. I think, and it's JMO, that it corresponds to the increased bobcat numbers.

[GobbleNut]

There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.   

[HunterS5]

Lots of interesting perspectives, thanks for that. Turkey are still expanding into northern MN. Hunter numbers are increasing, but not as fast as the birds. I see hens with a dozen poults well into the summer so survival rate seems high and I can only take 1 in the spring and 1 in the fall. Makes me wonder how I will keep them at bay right now. That's why I was surprised to read other areas are struggling with declining populations.

Plenty of predators here, not to mention winters with snow deeper than they are tall.  But they are thriving! I'll be happy with that!

[owlhoot]

There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.

Sounds like a sensible solution.

[Bwk]

Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

[owlhoot]

Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

Your not alone.

[Kylongspur88]

In some areas yes. I think there's 2 big factors here. First is the explosion in the nest raider and especially coon population. 2 things have contributed to that. One is people are allowed to bait deer which provides a ready food source for the little bastards in the cold months meaning more survive the winter. Second, trappers and coon hunters who actually shoot them are becoming few and far between. Back when I was in highschool and college corn piles were for cheaters and during coon season it was nothing for every back road to have a truck with a dog box parked off the the side on any given night. It's just not like that anymore.

The second factor in my opinion is pressure. The season used to come in during the week which I think made for an easier opener, and by easier I mean fewer birds were killed in that first week of the season allowing for more breeding. Now, after they get hammered by every 6 year old in the state during youth season the weekend open means hordes of people hit the woods all at once.

My suggestions.... Longer trapping and coon seasons. Allow trapping on public lands. Move the youth season to after the main season instead of during peak breeding. The weather is better later anyways. Move the opener back to a weekday. Last is consolidate the 2 fall shotgun seasons and drop the bag limit from 1 bearded bird and 3 hens to 1 bearded bird and 1 hen.

Sadly I don't think fw will do much because they are concerned with license sales....

[old3toe]

 I live in western Ky myself and have been thinking the last four to five years they have been declining in numbers. I thought it was just me though and never said much about it. Leading up to now I've been hearing more and more people bring it up in counties all over Ky as well as many other states. I really hope the populations start to turn around again for the better but I believe the most logical reasons for the declines have been mentioned already. Based on sign and predator sightings and trailcam pics I really believe the exploding predator population is a big factor at least in our state. A lot of people have no idea how many coyotes, fox, bobcat, coon, skunk, and opossum we really have around here. They are thick here and getting thicker! The larger predators are taking out the mature and young adult turkeys then you've got the smaller ones destroying the population on the younger end of the spectrum such as raiding nests, killing poults, and immature birds. Then you have hunters filling their tags legally, and then hunters filling their tags, their wife's and kids tags, and even their mom and dad's tags illegally. And some just not tagging birds period. I've always hated the telecheck system since day one here in Ky for that reason. Then you throw in the bad hatch years because of weather or just overall bad breeding years and it all just seems to catch up to the flocks sustainability.

[saltysenior]

  Disease is the only reason that can be applied to all area of the country .....

[deerhunt1988]

Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

You just think you have it bad now. Many of us in the southeast would give our left....To be able to hear 5-6 a morning!

[nativeks]

My area of KS is down 80% to 90%. 2019 had the lowest poult recruitment ever recorded. 2020 was only slightly better so no help in the near term.

[Kylongspur88]

I live in western Ky myself and have been thinking the last four to five years they have been declining in numbers. I thought it was just me though and never said much about it. Leading up to now I've been hearing more and more people bring it up in counties all over Ky as well as many other states. I really hope the populations start to turn around again for the better but I believe the most logical reasons for the declines have been mentioned already. Based on sign and predator sightings and trailcam pics I really believe the exploding predator population is a big factor at least in our state. A lot of people have no idea how many coyotes, fox, bobcat, coon, skunk, and opossum we really have around here. They are thick here and getting thicker! The larger predators are taking out the mature and young adult turkeys then you've got the smaller ones destroying the population on the younger end of the spectrum such as raiding nests, killing poults, and immature birds. Then you have hunters filling their tags legally, and then hunters filling their tags, their wife's and kids tags, and even their mom and dad's tags illegally. And some just not tagging birds period. I've always hated the telecheck system since day one here in Ky for that reason. Then you throw in the bad hatch years because of weather or just overall bad breeding years and it all just seems to catch up to the flocks sustainability.

Telecheck is a poachers best friend. I know several of the wardens and they told me they simply don't have the time to follow-up on all suspicious entries. They try to follow-up on the obvious ones but when you have one guy covering several counties there's only so much he can do. I'll put it to you like this. I've deer hunted since 1996 and this year was the first year I've been checked. I thanked the guy for checking me and got his card so I could call him directly if I needed to. Those guys are way overworked and even more underpaid

[redleg06]

Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

You just think you have it bad now. Many of us in the southeast would give our left....To be able to hear 5-6 a morning!

No kidding!