Top reed isues

[Shady valley birds]

Hey guys not every call I make does this but maybe 1 out of 3 will. And the problem is when I make my first cut, the corners of the top reed loosen up and curl over.  But only after I make the first cut. Is it the tension, the back stretch? What's going on I just trim the corners and it kinda fixes it. Thanks guys

[maxbo36]

Could be a couple different issues.  If your top reed is too thin, sometimes it will curl up once cut.  I notice lately some of the .003 natural is running around .0025 and the "V" cuts sometimes want to curl.  The other issue could be lack of back tension.  When making cutter calls or Cut corner calls, if you do not put enough back tension on a call, your reeds will wrinkle or curl.  try more back tension or using a heavier reed and hopefully it helps.

[GobbleNut]

Good suggestions, Maxbo.  Personally, I haven't figured out how to eliminate that curling problem.  Sometimes it is not an issue anyway,...if the call sounds good, don't worry about it.  If it impacts the sound, however, I usually deal with it by trimming the reed a little bit at a time until I get it to sound the way I want it to.  It is a rare call that I make anymore,...curling or not,...that I can't modify to get it where it will sound "turkey".

In terms of the reed curling problem, the bigger issue I have had (and have seen others have, as well) is the folding over and sticking of the reed "flaps" while calling.  Sometimes, out of the blue, I can be using a call that has been performing flawlessly (according to my standards, that is) and all of a sudden one of the flaps will fold over and stick.  That seems to be a function of the primary cut depth,....get the vertical cuts too deep and the flaps can fold back too easily when they get relaxed when using the call a while.

Now, a lot of the time, that is not an issue other than changing calls,...but there are those rare instances where it has happened right in the middle of a conversation with a gobbler.  THAT just pisses me off!

[Shady valley birds]

Thanks guys I mainly use purple .04 and orange .03 for the top reed. And I don't think I put a lot of back tension on the calls. Barley a smile in the bottom reed. How does back tension whether too much or none at all affect the sound of the call?

[GobbleNut]

How does back tension whether too much or none at all affect the sound of the call?

At the risk of seeming like I am trying to avoid your question (which I am not), the amount of back tension to optimize call sound is really something you have to experiment with.  Unfortunately, just like every other variable in call construction, the back tension needed to get the sound you want can vary,...and it's hard to say what amount is best for each call design. 

Depending on how precise your call-making technique is, once you hit on a call design (including back tension) that really sounds good and works for you, then you can try to duplicate all of the variables as best you can to achieve that sound in the next calls you build. 

If nothing else, I put back tension in my calls to tighten the latex to eliminate the potential for wrinkling and latex "sag".  As I have stated before, I do most of the tuning of my calls through reed cut manipulation more than anything.

[Shady valley birds]

Great advice.  I can replicate the stretch, and the the back tension to an extent,  but the reed cut is my biggest issue to replicate.  But iv learned alot from you!

[maxbo36]

I personally like a call with lite back tension.  I find the more back tension I place in a call, the higher the tone and the more difficult it is for me to get any of the deep "R" value I look for in a call.  Having said that, I just made 200 calls for a customer that asked for the most extreme back tension I have ever put in a call and had very little side tension which tells me someone must like it.

I agree with Gobblenut in that I have a few calls during the year that the reed curl will effect the call in mid stride by flipping, which creates an extremely off tone.  If you could send a picture of one of the curled calls, it may help diagnose it.  .004 and true .003 should not be curling IMO.  I normally have problems with .0025, .002 and often Proph.

[GobbleNut]

I normally have problems with .0025, .002 and often Proph.

Maxbo, you seem to have a lot of experience in making mouth calls and the different materials.  I have always been under the impression (mostly from the supplier I use) that .0025 and "proph" were synonymous terms.  Your statement above makes me wonder if proph is actually something different in terms of thickness.  In addition, I have never heard any reference to .002.  Maybe you can clarify some of this for me and others...
Thanks....

[maxbo36]

Gobblenut, I am in the business of making mouth calls.  My company produces between 90-120k mouth calls every year for various companies around the country.  Each call is made to the clients specs and handmade one at a time.

To answer your question, there is "LATEX" and there is "PROPHYLACTIC" material. Pioneer proph is actually cut from condoms and about .003 thickness at this time.  Years ago, PROPH was .002 but with the outbreak of AID's in the 80's the suppliers thickened the material for extra protection.  Mitchel Johnson currently has what I call a HYBRID proph which is a different material than Pioneer and offered in different colors.  It provides a completely different sound that the Pioneer Proph which I consider to be the only true proph out there.  Not to say the MJ "Proph" is not good material.  It is just a different material all together.

Latex is a different beast and is offered in a wide array of thicknesses and colors.  .002,.0025,.003,.004 etc.  Just because a piece of rubber is .002 or .0025 does not make it Proph.  Latex is far easier to work with as Proph has made me both Gray and Bald over the years.  It is often wrinkled to the extreme and very difficult to stack with consistency.  I hope this helps!

[GobbleNut]

 Great info, maxbo.  I am still a bit confused with the difference between uses of the terms latex and proph.  I have always been under the impression that prophylactic material was just very thin latex.  In other words, when latex is produced in layers below a certain thickness, it is then referred to as prophylactic latex (or proph, for short, in the turkey call making world), and which defines its use for certain products in the medical and related fields. 

Your explanation leads me to think that latex and prophylactic material must be of different chemical compositions, which I was/am unaware of.  I am also aware that some suppliers use proph and .0025 thickness material interchangeably. 

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

[maxbo36]

Gobblenut, you are correct!  Proph is a different composition than latex to be sure.  Reed thickness has nothing to do with rather it is considered Proph or Latex.  Some condoms are actually latex condoms,LOL  there's a wrench in the mix.  IMO, Pioneer Proph is the only TRUE proph in the industry.  Having said that, it is also the most difficult to work with.  The upside is Pioneer proph gives average callers a real hen pitch they can't get with latex.  About 70% of all the calls we build in a years time incorporates Proph.  Lord I wish it didn't,LOL  I hope this helps