Toms from Jakes

[Txag12]

Here's a question a buddy and I have been discussing lately. On the property we hunt there is a good number of jakes running around and far fewer toms. Right now the birds are still grouped up for the most part but starting to strut and do a little bit of fighting. The question is how do we go about patterning a single bird and doing our best to make sure he is a tom, when 90% of the time they are in thick woods and never seen. My thoughts are as the breeding season ramps up they will start splitting up, and the solitary birds will be toms while the ones roosting in pairs or small groups will be jakes (possibly two year olds). I feel like putting too much traffic in the woods trying to figure out what they are or calling them up to see before the season would be doing more harm than good. What is yalls take on this and approach on identifying a tom from jakes when you rarely visibily see them but hear them on the roost?

[Bowguy]

Can you see the birds? Where do you live? Break up can occur at dif times in dif areas. If they're strutting look for a beard or full fan. Even facing away the full fan shows at least a 2 year old.
Jakes 4 center tail feathers fall out first n thus grow by spring time the most giving the appearance of a notched fan.
If you see them strut come break up use long range binocular scouting to determine patterns.

[Txag12]

I think I poorly described the issue. Visually I can identify toms from jakes, the issue is we are in thick woods so you rarely get to see them to identify. More so how do you go about identifying a tom from jake if you rarely see them without calling them in.

[EZ]

You can sometimes make an educated guess based on their gobble, but it's best to just work the birds and see what shows up (in season). If you don't want to shoot Jakes, then don't shoot the Jakes.

[Bowguy]

You can sometimes make an educated guess based on their gobble, but it's best to just work the birds and see what shows up (in season). If you don't want to shoot Jakes, then don't shoot the Jakes.

That's the answer I'd give too but birds won't stay in thick cover breeding season where I live. Do they do so in your area?

[Txag12]

We rarely see birds in the open come season...they seem to prefer to hang in the thickness of cover, I can only count a handful of times I've ever visibility seen birds aside from when hunting and calling them in

[dejake]

Target the bird(s) that gobble the least.

[LaLongbeard]

I've always thought I could tell the difference till  last year I called up a long beard and he stopped out of range and then walked off gobbling. I repositioned and thought he had circled my  first set up. This one was gobbling good when he walked out on a skidder trail with a 4" beard.He had a full deep sounding gobble I would have bet money it was the same gobbler but it was an early hatched Jake from 2015.

[fallhnt]

No need to call em up before the season and to early to say you got em figured out. Wait till season gets close to pattern em and if you call in a jake, let it walk if you want.

[catman529]

Just stay outta the woods since you know they are there and go in when season opens and set up on whatever bird sounds like a mature gobble. If it turns out to be a jake then you don't have to shoot if you don't want, at least you called one in, and can call another one in.


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[Marc]

Listen for the hens...  The toms will be with the hens.  Pattern the hens, and the toms will be there as well...  Or listen for the birds gobbling with the hens...

Jakes are often more vocal, but I have certainly heard some very vocal toms.  I cannot for the life of me tell the difference between a jake and a tom from the gobble alone...

[MK M GOBL]

My guess is you are a bit farther south than WI, our first seasons we can still have snow... there is no real "cover" leaves or underbrush at start of season, where I am it is ridges and valleys and I can see birds across the valleys, grab the binos and I can pick out birds, see beards and have watched them strut on the limb and such, now this only holds for the first few seasons till we green up, but when I start scouting here at home it's easy to see birds. Time wise my actual scouting will start in about 2 weeks from start of march when I start seeing winter breakup...

MK M GOBL

[hobbes]

Easterns have a good hard and loud gobble, so more often than not I can tell a jake from a tom by it's gobble.  There are two times that it's difficult to tell them apart:
- When there are several jakes together gobbling at once, but even then you can figure it out after listening for a while.  However, I've seen toms hanging with a couple jakes, so I don't mind working them in unless I can hear a definite tom that I'd prefer to set up on.
- Late season the jakes are starting to figure it out and are learning to gobble.  They seem to start to develop a better gobble by season's end.

I have a more difficult time telling the difference with western birds because their gobble is nowhere near as hearty as an Eastern.

The only attempt at patterning turkeys that I've made is to listen to them gobble after they fly down to see which direction they go.  On occasion I may spot one in a field on multiple occasions and try to use that to my advantage, but I've never been terribly fond of hunting fields unless necessary.

[jims]

I hunt areas with very few toms and lots of hens.  I can pretty much guarantee the few toms that are there will be hanging out and strutting with the hens all day long.  Search for hens and you will find the few toms that exist in your area!  Figure out where the hens feed and travel each day and the toms will follow.

It also sounds like you know exactly where they roost so if you stay close to the roost sooner or later a tom will show up. 

Is the area you are hunting reasonably small in size?  The reason I ask is because if the area is small you will likely just have to filter through the jakes until a tom shows up. 

[Txag12]

Thanks guys I've been scouting extensively for the past 3 weeks every bit of free time I have. Got travel corridors pinned down, sat and watched their movements (when able to see them), located roost sites...may just have a buncha jakes running around on the place...of the 25 birds I've seen it's been 14 hens, 10 jakes, and 1 tom!