This Saturday after our youth day we will be testing Kicks ..665, indian creek .665, and a primos jellyhead .660... Hopefully they will perform as good in my dads sbe ii as the 3" did in my 870. I will post the numbers upon completion. Once again we are using the 4's simply to be able to kill both gobblers and coyotes as a compromise. The only problem was how tight the pattern was for me... 16" at 40 not much room for error in the 870...