for the record I don't shoot past 45 yards. that my comfortable range, and that what I trust. I don't have a reason to switch from htl loads. long beards yes they are impressive but so is htl loads. ill shoot what I have confidence in and so far that's htl loads. but that's just me. I also don't need 5 shot guns and turkey chokes on all of them and all of that like I said 8 dollars a shell is very cheap compared to something that ultimately finishes the deal. it all comes down to the late few seconds when you pull the trigger and I want something I have 1000 percent in and that's htl loads. like I said lead will kill them every day of the week I just don't see a reason to switch. if it aint broke don't fix it.