Now This is a Dilemma

[StruttinGobbler3]

Here's the rundown of my issue. My current gun is a Remington 870 SM turkey/predator. I normally shoot hevi 13 #6s. With all the hype over the new Winchester Longbeards, I picked up a box in 3" #6s to see for myself. I started by deep cleaning my barrel. I then set out with two chokes;  the factory Remington HD turkey tube and a .665 Indian Creek. I lasered 40 yards and shot one of each shell through each choke. The results were as follows, with all pellet counts being in a 10" circle:
Indian Creek with Hevi #6s- 113 hits.
Indian Creek with Longbeard #6s-213 hits (yes you read that correctly)
Remington HD with hevi #6s- 180 hits
Remington HD with longbeard #6s-174 hits

All 4 patterns were very evenly spaced. I was sorely disappointed in my Indian Creek with Hevi 13, but absolutely blown away by its pattern with the long beards. I never expected that from this shell. Both shells throw an excellent killing pattern  with the Remington choke. So here's my dilemma which combo to hunt with? Do I go with the Hevi 13 which has more knockdown at longer ranges? Or will those extra 33 hits with the long beard outperform the hevi shot? Opinions?

[WildSpur]

Well...I would go for a 3 shot average to get a better idea.

Regardless I would shoot htl loads basically phasing them out.  I would not jump ship to shoot the longbeards despite much better numbers.  Because of price my htl loads only get shot at real birds.  Once your supply runs out who knows what will be hot?  You do have a great set up though.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[darn2ten]

Good lord, who knows where this thread is going to go, lol! This is lead 6's vs HTL 6's, as far as penetration and a little wiggle room are concerned the HTL 6's win out. Hevi shot is only slightly heavier than lead, 10.9 g/cc for lead verses 12 g/cc for Hevi. Now if you shot #5 vs #6 Hevi you would be much closer in comparison. After all the arguing on here lately over the lead vs hevi I actually did a little searching on this today and found this.

This would be in ballistic gelatin with a starting muzzle velocity of 1290 ftps. for both for comparison.

40yds.

#5 lead @ 700 fps. = 2.77 ft lb. / 1.82 in.
#6 Hevi @ 713 fps. = 2.48 ft lb. / 1.85 in.

50yds.

#5 lead @ 622 fps. = 2.18 ft lb. / 1.54 in.
#6 Hevi @ 635 fps. = 1.97 ft lb. / 1.58 in.

Now that was with a starting muzzle velocity of 1290 fps. The new Win. Long Beard shells are 1200 fps. and the factory Hevi-13 are 1090 fps. so you would have to make adjustments for that. Personally I try to keep all my shots inside 40 and shoot 5's,and most all my shots are between 25 to 35 so it doesn't really matter. A lead #6 is about maxed out at 40 were as a lead #5 will stretch out there a little further with a little more wiggle room if needed. The biggest problem with lead past 40 especially #5 has been pattern density in the past. The new LB shells have really changed that. I really like the Hevi 6's and was my go to shell when I hunted with Hevi, but I've done a lot of hunting with lead #5's and love them too. In your comparison the Hevi 6's with the Remington HD choke wins for me. I would try the LB #5's, you might be real surprised. I got 203 in the 10 @ 40 with a LB 3" #5 with my Browning and a .665 IC. Your gun is a SM so you could try the 3.5" #5 also. My 3.5" gun with #5's put up 187, but I'm betting the 3" would give you plenty of pattern density. Whatever you decide, good luck!

[owlhoot]

This would be in ballistic gelatin with a starting muzzle velocity of 1290 ftps. for both for comparison.

40yds.

#5 lead @ 700 fps. = 2.77 ft lb. / 1.82 in.
#6 Hevi @ 713 fps. = 2.48 ft lb. / 1.85
[/quote]
Interesting, but with his questions it was 6 lead or 6 hevi. But with the longbeards it is being reported to be closer to 7 lead in those shells.?
Do you have that info in ballistic gel handy?
I agree that if longbeards are used the 5 would be the way to go.
He would have to pattern 5 and use that for the pellet count decision.

[SumToy]

Well I don't see what all the fuss is about.  Everyone fuss about shoot a bird to far one day then next they fuss shell want kill him that far.   


Now That said both will kill all day long at 40 yards.  The HV13 numbers are down do to the wad.  I am glad you shot the Rem HD choke because I had ideas what it would take to fix the problem.  This proves it.   

[StruttinGobbler3]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I already have my own ideas but wanted to hear some opinions of other hunters. In my opinion I believe the Remington HD choke is the way to go, because it throws a nice pattern with both shells. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with either load. But at 40-45 yards, the hevi shot's extra penetration gives me a little more peace of mind. That and I have eight boxes of hevi #6s stored in my gun safe. However, I will admit the long beard is the most impressive lead shell I've ever tested. I suspect it would do the job equally well out to 40 yards. If I didn't have a stockpile of hevi shot, I would possibly give more consideration to swapping over. Thanks again for the input.

[darn2ten]

With the #6's and eight boxes in your gun case I think you made a very good choice. Good luck again!

[reflexl]

With the #6's and eight boxes in your gun case I think you made a very good choice. Good luck again!

+1