got banned

[snapper1982]

I received a 3 day ban from another forum(turkey hunting section of said forum, but was banned from the whole thing) for being involved in a dispute and discussion on shooting "long range"(60-75 yds) for turkeys. my self and a couple of other guys made the argument that it is unethical if your gun does not have an acceptable pattern. we called in the 100/10 "rule". another guy came on board and basically said the 100/10 is BS and has no merit. he also said he has killed several birds at over 70yds and has never patterned his gun at that distance and he does so with a fixed choke .632 shooting federal 3in 2oz copper plated 6s. I asked for patterns and he refused to provide them. so it turned into that the other guys and myself did not know anything and to get ahold of him when we killed the birds he has. one of the mods showed up and basically accused the other guys and my self of making up the 100/10 for our benefit because he had never heard of it. at which another guy posted a link to nwtf talking about the 100/10. which must not have sat well. another guy said all you got to do is shoot a pop can and if you put some pellets in it then you are good to go. (this is not the first thread this guy has butted in on and turned south) so I told him (this guy saying the 100/10 is a joke, not the mod)that every time he shows up on a thread it goes to crap. he has also made the comment that if he wounds one then that is for him to live with. at which I said I disagree. he might live with it a short time but the bird has to live with it til it dies. he got mad about that. about 10 minutes later, I and the original poster(who had long left the convo) and one other guy got banned but the guy that caused all the grief was allowed to stay. turns out him and the mod are friends. talk about abuse of power!

so my question is to you guys. am I wrong about 100/10? I know you can get by with a bit less but why risk wounding a bird.

anyway thanks for the rant.

[redarrow]

100 in the 10 sounds like a minimum to me.Since those folks seem to be promoting what you (and I) consider unethical behavior you are probably better off without them.

[wvcurlytop]

The 100/10 rule sounds reasonable to me.  I haven't heard of it, but I agree it would make a good minimum.

[snapper1982]

it has been the "rule" for a long time. here is direct from nwtf site.

http://www.nwtf.org/tips_adventures/tips.php?id=13279

What's in a pattern?

What is the difference between a bad pattern and a good pattern, and what can you do to improve the pattern of your shotgun?

The ideal pattern for turkey hunting is 100 pellets in a 10-inch circle at 40 yards. This density means that there should be plenty of pellets in the small vital area of the turkey's head and neck to kill it ethically.

If you prefer No. 6 turkey loads (approx. 222 pellets/oz.), then a two ounce load of No. 6s should pattern about 25 percent of its shot in the 10-inch circle. Two ounces of No. 5s (approx. 171 pellets/oz.) should give you a pattern of about 30 percent. Two ounces of No. 4s (approx. 135 pellets/oz.) should result in a 37-percent pattern. These numbers are based on lead pellets, so heavier- than-lead alloy pellets will have fewer pellets per ounce and the percentage will differ slightly.

[hookedspur]

I would think you are better off

[snapper1982]

it boils down to having a dense enough pattern to ensure that there is no way your core can hit the head and neck and not have direct strikes to the skull/spine kill area. this is why not only do we like high numbers but we also like the pellets to be evenly spread and not a bunch of clusters leaving "holes" in the pattern.

[mikejd]

I remember when 100/10 was not even attainable with the chokes that were out. Many good birds have been taken with less then 100. I am not disagreeing here at all just saying. I have an older turkey book and in the patterning section it says you need at least 3 hits in the vitals to be an affective pattern. most hunters used to hunt with no.4 lead there was no way they were getting 100. So its going to be a tough sell to some.

As for your story it sounds like you are better off over here anyway.

[snapper1982]

I remember when 100/10 was not even attainable with the chokes that were out. Many good birds have been taken with less then 100. I am not disagreeing here at all just saying. I have an older turkey book and in the patterning section it says you need at least 3 hits in the vitals to be an affective pattern. most hunters used to hunt with no.4 lead there was no way they were getting 100. So its going to be a tough sell to some.

As for your story it sounds like you are better off over here anyway.

yes I remember way back reading and attaining to the 3/hits vital rule. and yes many birds were killed with that but I know of many that were lost also. figure it this way. if you have 100 hits in the 10 circle. obviously not all of those will hit the turkey. so we can guess that an average of 1/3 will strike the turkey head/neck. now out of (my estimated) 34 strikes I am estimating 25% will strike skull/spine. so that puts 8.5 hitting the kill zone. now minus 1 or 2 for grazes and now you have 6.5 to 8.5 average for hitting the kill zone with a 100/10 pattern. now throw in a twist of a shell that for what ever reason shoots a low number. say instead of 100 this particular shell shoots 85. you shoot that shell obviously unknowing what it will do at a turkey and now you are likely to get 4 hits in the kill zone.
what I am trying to point out is that the 100/10 is not that much better than the 3 vitals hit rule(upon which many guys shot the turkey target got one pattern that put 3 and said that's good enough, not knowing or not caring that they did not get an average to make sure the load is capable every time) and it gives you a little leeway for error in any certain pattern.

[snapper1982]

I am sure my estimated numbers are probably a little low but it is better to be on the low side and have leeway than be on the high side and be down about losing a bird.

[mikejd]

No doubt that the more the better. To me there is nothing worse then crippling an animal of any type. I would rather have to take the closest shot possible or get him tomorrow. What I do know is that for years I shot #4's and I did not have 60 in the 10 and I have never missed or injured a bird 40yds or under. Not looking to jinx myself as I am proud of that. I now shoot hevi 6's because why not have the best possible.

[snapper1982]

Same guy i got banned over sayn threads turn to crap when he shows up also shoots at deer over 1000 yards lol

[mikejd]

I know these type of people. I just steer clear of them.

[snapper1982]

I will be sure to talk with the other mods about this. and most likely will just stay away from that one. if you cant disagree esp when there is bad info being posted and accepted then what is the use? I am glad that no one gets banned from the camp fire when guys start talking about guns,bows,hunting,fishing because it always turns to disagreements.

[GobbleNut]

I have never understood the long-range mentality some turkey hunters have.  To me, the entire attraction of turkey hunting is calling the birds in close.  Personally, I wish someone would invent a range-finder attachment for guns that made it impossible for the gun to shoot if the bird was beyond forty yards,...or thereabouts.  As far as I am concerned, the guys that want to be able to kill birds at sixty or seventy yards are missing the entire point of turkey hunting.  Oh well,....I am not the maker of the turkey hunting rules....

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Well I leave what happened at another forum there for the most part, but since you posted it here, I was one of the guys that got banned as well.  There are some real know it alls over there.  And some guys can talk the smack, but they can't back up what they say.  I can and I will since I'm from the Show-Me State.  Some of those guys would do good to fit in here is all I will say.  That RR and his 76yd turkey kills is nothing but stupidity talking. 

The same goes for his 1000yd deer pop shot post.