I know this is off the subject but I had been shooting the Winchester HV with great results for a long time, my gun with GT 660 loved them, but after letting a couple birds get away from me in Georgia last year I got to thinking they changed the load up. It still says HV on the box but the shell says supreme. It also went from being $20 a box to about $12. I did shoot some when patterning the magnum loads that shot low and they did hit POA.