Ah the joys of lead....

[jakesdad]

See in the Turkey Guns forum the fellas are having problems with the H13 loads going downhill,EM has apparantly made some changes and the performance,although still good,is not as good as in the past.Ive tried the H13 7's in my 20 and they shot well to me so I dont know if I got a "good" batch or a 'bad" batch.All I had shot in the past was lead so the H13 loads were all new to me,and they did do better than lead for the most part out of the 20,especially out to 40.But with all this talk of changing components and lesser performance,I'm not sure if the HTL loads are for me.I have a pretty good stash of lead from over the years and it seems my patterns dont change much from a new box or a 4 yr old box.I'm NOT bashin anybody for using the H13 loads,like i said I tried em and they did well,but with the worries of changes and patterning year to year is it really worth it?I guess a guy could find a batch that works well and really stock up as Shannon mentioned,but sometimes there is piece of mind knowing some things(lead loads as far as I know)stay pretty much the same over the years,but I may be wrong and just havent noticed.Sometimes tried,true,and simple is best.Just my .02

[TLT]

I have read alot of those posts and wonder how many more hevi pellets it takes to kill a gobbler? I have tried many different loads in my guns over the last 7 or 8 years including several different htl loads and have settled on lead for the obvious reason. Cost. Dead is dead you can get higher numbers at 40 yards with htl on paper but the result is the same with lead if one patterns his gun knows the poa vs poi and makes the proper shot. Dead is dead period. Just my opinion also. Good luck to all you other lead shooters.

[S.C.C]

Fellows as mentioned....either way Lead or HTL if you find a combo that works for you its best to stock up right then with enough to last forever,even take a loan if need be!!Prices are not going down on ammo never have and never will! If you actually have to hunt or fight for food you will be set!

[BowBendr]

Good thread.
I too jumped on the Hevi band wagon a year or two ago after smashing them with lead #5's for 25 years. I guess I wanted to experience the rage of what was supposed to be so awesome and new.

Well, I have several boxes of the Hevi 7's in question and if they do have the drop in numbers that others are reporting, i'll ease right on down to the local Wal-Mart and pick up a few boxes of Win. HV #5's, screw the ol' Kicks .670 back in the 835 and continue right on with smashing more heads, save some major dinero, and have no consistancy issues.

I hate a frettin' over something............................

[dawei]

See in the Turkey Guns forum the fellas are having problems with the H13 loads going downhill,EM has apparantly made some changes and the performance,although still good,is not as good as in the past.Ive tried the H13 7's in my 20 and they shot well to me so I dont know if I got a "good" batch or a 'bad" batch.All I had shot in the past was lead so the H13 loads were all new to me,and they did do better than lead for the most part out of the 20,especially out to 40.But with all this talk of changing components and lesser performance,I'm not sure if the HTL loads are for me.I have a pretty good stash of lead from over the years and it seems my patterns dont change much from a new box or a 4 yr old box.I'm NOT bashin anybody for using the H13 loads, like i said I tried em and they did well,but with the worries of changes and patterning year to year is it really worth it?I guess a guy could find a batch that works well and really stock up as Shannon mentioned,but sometimes there is piece of mind knowing some things(lead loads as far as I know)stay pretty much the same over the years,but I may be wrong and just havent noticed.Sometimes tried,true,and simple is best.Just my .02

I believe that you are 100% SPOT ON in your observations. My experience is limited to three types of HTL loads...................
• Remington® Premier® Hevi•Shot® Nitro Magnum Waterfowl Loads 20ga 3" Mag 1300fps 1 1/8oz #4, 5, and 6 shot (12g/cc) #PRHSN20M4, M5, M6
• Remington® Premier® Hevi•Shot® Nitro Magnum Turkey Loads 20ga 3" Mag 1175fps 1¼oz #4, 5, and 6 shot (12g/cc) #PRHS20M4, M5, M6
• Environmetal® Hevi13™ Hevi•Shot® 20ga 3" Mag 1090fps #6 shot (13g/cc) #01306

Hevi13™ has been an absolute disappointment to me as a Turkey load. Very inconsistent patterning results. I tried these shells in three 20ga guns with 10 different choke combinations; ALL WERE UNIFORMLY BAD PATTERNS! I used loads from four different lots. (The only thing consistent about this ammunition is that it was inconsistent!)

The Remington® loads OTOH are SUPERB PATTERNING TURKEY LOADS! Interestingly the 1300fps 1 1/8oz  #6 Waterfowl loading patterned about 10% more pellets than the 1175fps 1¼oz #6 Turkey load. (The 1¼oz Turkey load patterns outstanding in it's own right).

I'm fortunate in that I have several boxes of the Remington® Premier® Hevi•Shot® Nitro Magnum Turkey Loads 20ga 3" Mag 1175fps 1¼oz #6 shot (12g/cc) #PRHS20M6 on hand, certainly enough to last me the remainder of my life. Additionally I have a stash of the Remington® Premier® Hevi•Shot® Nitro Magnum Waterfowl Loads 20ga 3" Mag 1300fps 1 1/8oz #4 shot (12g/cc) #PRHSN20M4 on hand. (These are my "Go To" loads for Canadian Geese).

Although I'm lucky to have these Remington® Hevi•Shot® loads I save them almost exclusively for waterfowl hunting; and I only use them in one of my 20ga guns. In my other two 20ga's I use strictly Pb. In these guns I have tried..........
• Federal® Premium® Grand Slam Turkey™ (Triple Plus™ Wad Column) 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1¼, and 1 5/16oz #4 (#GST258 4)
• Federal® Premium® Grand Slam Turkey™ (Triple Plus™ Wad Column) 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1¼, and 1 5/16oz #5 (#GST258 5)
• Federal® Premium® Grand Slam Turkey™ (Triple Plus™ Wad Column) 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1¼, and 1 5/16oz #6 (#GST258 6)
• Federal® Premium® Flitecontrol® Mag-Shok® 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1 5/16oz #4 #PFC258 4
• Federal® Premium® Flitecontrol® Mag-Shok® 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1 5/16oz #5 #PFC258 5
• Federal® Premium® Flitecontrol® Mag-Shok® 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1 5/16oz #6 #PFC258 6
• Kent® Ultimate Diamond Shot® 1300fps 1¼oz #5 (K203TK36-5)
• Remington® Nitro-Turkey 1185fps 1¼oz #5 (NT20M5)
• Remington® Premier® Magnum 1185fps 1¼oz #6 (P20XHM6)
• Winchester® Supreme® High Velocity 1200fps 1 5/16oz #4 (STH2034)
• Winchester® Supreme® High Velocity 1200fps 1 5/16oz #5 (STH2035)

The above loads in BOLD are the best performers in my gun(s). They perform so consistently well that I will not hesitate to revoke the birth certificate of any gobbler on this earth out to 40yds!

If I could choose only one Pb loading per gun it would be the Winchester® Supreme® High Velocity 1200fps 1 5/16oz #4 (STH2034) for my 20ga Mossberg® Mdl 500C pump with the Swarm™ .555" choke. The other gun and load would be Remington® SPR220 (Baikal® IZH-43) 20ga SxS shooting the Remington® Nitro-Turkey 1185fps 1¼oz #5 (NT20M5) through a Colonial Arms® .570" choke.

My patterning tests PROVE your contention that Pb loadings are remarkably consistent! Additionally I've found that CW doesn't always apply. Because the 20ga 3" Mag has a limited case capacity of 1 1/8, 1¼, or 1 5/16oz shot; it makes sense, both logically and mathematically; to use the smallest shot size to produce the densest pattern. Regarding Federal® BFCW (Before the Flitecontrol® Wad); this was true for me. I used the  Federal® Premium® Grand Slam Turkey™ (Triple Plus™ Wad Column) 20ga 3" Mag 1185fps 1¼, and 1 5/16oz #6 (#GST258 6) with superior results. Sadly (for me), his ammunition is no longer available. As we all know it's about what are individual gun/shell/choke combo can produce. As I have previously iterated however, for me, CW doesn't apply. I get the most consistently good, and evenly distributed patterns, with #4, and 5Pb.

I'm not going to pay $18.99+tax for 5ea Hevi13™ shells when I can buy DRTBITD (Dead Right There Beak In The Dirt!); performance for $6.99 (10ea Remington® Nitro-Turkey®), and $11.99 (10ea Winchester® Supreme® High Velocity)!

Other than the Remington® HTL loads I mentioned above, the HTL ship has sailed AFAIAC. Environmetal® Hevi•Shot® has got the last dollar from me they are ever going to get! Additionally I can't foresee spending my limited funds on Remington® WingmasterHD® or Winchester® Xtended Range® HTL loads either.

I'm sticking with Pb!!!!!