Wad stripping question

[Gman]

I know some people believe that extended ported choke tubes can reduce recoil. I don't think that they do but I'm not here to debate that question. What I would like to know about is the strippage or "slowing down" of the wad.

If ported choke tubes DO slow down or strip the wad, then why is that better for the pattern?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the payload of shot be better at longer ranges, IF the shot stays in the wad for a longer time/distance?

Please enlighten me on this subject.

Thank You!

[Penguin907]

I noticed my patterns getting better when the wad was further behind the shot. Tried lots of different wad configurations. The ones where the wad hit the target or got close would throw a donut pattern. The ones that dropped close to me like 10 yards had a more even pattern with less flyers.

[Gman]

I noticed my patterns getting better when the wad was further behind the shot. Tried lots of different wad configurations. The ones where the wad hit the target or got close would throw a donut pattern. The ones that dropped close to me like 10 yards had a more even pattern with less flyers.

What I'm getting at is, if the shot (payload) stays in the pedals of the wad longer, wouldn't the pattern be tighter at the target?

[Penguin907]

I noticed my patterns getting better when the wad was further behind the shot. Tried lots of different wad configurations. The ones where the wad hit the target or got close would throw a donut pattern. The ones that dropped close to me like 10 yards had a more even pattern with less flyers.

What I'm getting at is, if the shot (payload) stays in the pedals of the wad longer, wouldn't the pattern be tighter at the target?

In my experience no it does not. The wad disrupts the pattern. The wads main purpose is to protect the payload down the barrel. A wad with shot in it outside the barrel destabilizes quick leading to inconsistent results. Get the wad away from the shot ASAP for better patterns.

[BandedSpur]

Not sure how much ported chokes help to strip wads, but wad strippers in the choke certainly seem to. Indian Creek and Sumtoy both have them, and those choke tubes seem to work very well. I agree that the longer the wad stays with the shot, the more likely the chance of it disrupting the pattern.

Federal's Flight Control Wad is designed to stay with the shot, and the majority opinion is that the concept does not work well, at least in tightly choked turkey guns. In side by side tests, Federal usually does not fair well against other brands of ammo.

[SumToy]

You need the wad to sperate from the shot.  You will get the donut as talked about above and if one pedal folds and the other ones dont then you cant get a tumble.  That will sling shot.

 

[Gman]

You need the wad to sperate from the shot.  You will get the donut as talked about above and if one pedal folds and the other ones dont then you cant get a tumble.  That will sling shot.

 

OK, so you want the wad and shot to separate as soon as possible to help the pattern stay consistent. Fair enough.

Now, do "ports" (in the extended tube) definitely slow or strip the wad?

[Penguin907]

You need the wad to sperate from the shot.  You will get the donut as talked about above and if one pedal folds and the other ones dont then you cant get a tumble.  That will sling shot.

 

OK, so you want the wad and shot to separate as soon as possible to help the pattern stay consistent. Fair enough.

Now, do "ports" (in the extended tube) definitely slow or strip the wad?

I don't know if all ports do, but on the Kicks GT it definitely does. Wads looks much more beat up than with non ported chokes. I suspect the sudden release of gas in all directions along with constriction slows it down rather aggressively.

[Ihuntoldschool]

You have to realize when choke makers run out of things to sell you they resort to making ridiculous claims, claims which have never been verified and never will be. 

They'll never come out and tell you it's all about the constriction. If they can make you believe the wad is somehow interfering with your shot pattern you buy more chokes. Choke makers like this.

Now go look at some high speed photos or videos of shot immediately after leaving the bore. You'll see wads already open and shots already ahead of the wad.

The shot starts separating from the wad INSIDE the bore in the choke area.  If it didn't you wouldn't see chokes take a beating and sometimes see choke and barrel damage from HTL shot.

Soon as shot and wad hits open area they start slowing. Look at the wads design, the petals open and peel back, away from the shot not towards. Now when laws of physics start acting on shot and wad which you think is slowing down faster? Heavy metal shot in very tight cluster or very lightweight piece of plastic?

Of course the wad slows faster. It's beyond me how anyone thinks the wad is somehow crashing into a shot pattern disturbing it.

Go to one of your local top trap shoots where top shooters compete , big money on the line. Let me know how many wad strippers you see.  You'll see fixed chokes or smooth chokes win EVERY time.

Watch the Olympic trap, same thing. Think about it one shot difference between winning and losing. If wad strippers offered ANY advantage they'd all be shooting them. They shoot smooth chokes. 

Get some buckshot and pattern. Try Federal flite control buck vs any other brand same load, shot size. See what shoots tighter.

Look at George Digweed. He could shoot anything he wanted. Won every championship time after time with fixed chokes.

Marketing at work here guys. 

[Gman]

You have to realize when choke makers run out of things to sell you they resort to making ridiculous claims, claims which have never been verified and never will be. 

They'll never come out and tell you it's all about the constriction. If they can make you believe the wad is somehow interfering with your shot pattern you buy more chokes. Choke makers like this.

Now go look at some high speed photos or videos of shot immediately after leaving the bore. You'll see wads already open and shots already ahead of the wad.

The shot starts separating from the wad INSIDE the bore in the choke area.  If it didn't you wouldn't see chokes take a beating and sometimes see choke and barrel damage from HTL shot.

Soon as shot and wad hits open area they start slowing. Look at the wads design, the petals open and peel back, away from the shot not towards. Now when laws of physics start acting on shot and wad which you think is slowing down faster? Heavy metal shot in very tight cluster or very lightweight piece of plastic?

Of course the wad slows faster. It's beyond me how anyone thinks the wad is somehow crashing into a shot pattern disturbing it.

Go to one of your local top trap shoots where top shooters compete , big money on the line. Let me know how many wad strippers you see.  You'll see fixed chokes or smooth chokes win EVERY time.

Watch the Olympic trap, same thing. Think about it one shot difference between winning and losing. If wad strippers offered ANY advantage they'd all be shooting them. They shoot smooth chokes. 

Get some buckshot and pattern. Try Federal flite control buck vs any other brand same load, shot size. See what shoots tighter.

Look at George Digweed. He could shoot anything he wanted. Won every championship time after time with fixed chokes.

Marketing at work here guys.

Thank You for the insight on this subject. As an ex-ATA trapshooter, I know that no one uses ported choke tubes. Some guys get their barrels ported but most claim that it didn't do anything. (other than the doubles shooters who claim less muzzle rise on the first shot)

Concerning turkey scatterguns only, I have read so much about the wad "blowing" the pattern. And I do realize that the shot column moves much faster than the wad when exiting the barrel so I really couldn't see how the wad can blow or doughnut a pattern. As you said, physics prove this.

I have 3 turkey tubes that are ported for my Remington 12 bores. I believe that the Ventilator (.655) came with the 870 SM. I bought a used Primos Tite Wad (.660) for $10 from a LGS, and I have a No-Name ported tube (.670) that was given to me by a friend. All that I buy for my 1100 Sporting Clays are Trulock (non-ported) and they work every bit as good as the more expensive Briley's. I don't own any "high dollar" tubes & I also don't count holes on my targets. I still shoot "old school lead" (3 inch only) in the 12's and it has worked for me since 1981.