The TSS flutter?

[bwhana]

He wound up 300yds or so at the bottom.

We certainly hunt the same western NC mountain terrain and your pics do it justice!   I also like to attempt to hide evidence of a kill site on public, but it is impossible when it looks like you wrestled a bear down a mountain and leave a trail of feathers.  I tore out all but 4 tail feathers on one trying to catch him rolling down in a spot like your pics.

Even if TSS was just equal in pellet count and other measures to previous loads, if it prevented this just 10% better than others, it would still be reason enough to shoot it for me.

[ChesterCopperpot]

He wound up 300yds or so at the bottom.

We certainly hunt the same western NC mountain terrain and your pics do it justice!   I also like to attempt to hide evidence of a kill site on public, but it is impossible when it looks like you wrestled a bear down a mountain and leave a trail of feathers.  I tore out all but 4 tail feathers on one trying to catch him rolling down in a spot like your pics.

Even if TSS was just equal in pellet count and other measures to previous loads, if it prevented this just 10% better than others, it would still be reason enough to shoot it for me.

I don't know how in the world he managed to never get caught on one of them saplings down through there other than it was just meant to be that I'd have to walk the same path he did And to the people who say they won't come uphill, we must not hunt the same country.

As for the TSS, I don't know how we can predict or understand what's going to happen bird to bird so we're really just left with personal observations. I haven't really noticed a difference, but that don't mean much. Nerves and especially nerves on something that's croaked are an odd, odd thing. Throw some skinned out frog legs in saltwater hours after they're dead and they'll dance a jig. Or like when I chopped the head off a big timber rattler and had left it laying there about three hours and told my buddy to go pick it up and it whipped around and struck him in the arm with that bloody nub. How in the world does stuff like that happen?!? He ain't have a head! And my buddy ain't have his bowels! Regardless, if it had to do with severing a brain stem the snakes wouldn't strike and the frogs wouldn't dance.


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[Yoder409]

I've noticed a lot more "no-flop" birds with TSS too.  My theory is that if you take the brain stem out they don't flop.  With the denser patterns TSS provides I think we may be hitting that more often.  Just a theory tho.

You, very well, could be on to something.

First no-flop bird I ever shot was the very first one with Longbeard XR #6's.   Like flipping the light switch off.  I get about 50/50 with the Federal Heavy 7's in the 20 gauge I've been using for the last several years.

[tazmaniac]

Whether they flop or not is all about any stimulation of the bird after the shot, and has nothing to do with what you shot them with (assuming you indeed put at least 1 pellet on the brain or spinal cord... if not, there's going to be some serious flagellation and potentially lost bird).  I've found since switching to TSS several years ago, I no longer run to the bird after the shot.  They just aren't getting away.  As such, I often don't reach the bird for 5 minutes or more after the shot, and they have ceased the ability to flop by the time you pick them up at that point.  That's the only difference between lead and TSS

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[tazmaniac]

I've noticed a lot more "no-flop" birds with TSS too.  My theory is that if you take the brain stem out they don't flop.  With the denser patterns TSS provides I think we may be hitting that more often.  Just a theory tho.

Ever see a chicken with his head cut off?  Completely severing the brain or spinal cord does nothing to prevent birds from flopping.  It's all about how the bird is stimulated after it's shot (or in the case of chickens, how it's kept immobile after slitting it's throat and it's eyes close as it peacefully falls asleep).  A killing cone is nice for processing backyard chickens to keep them from flopping and bruising the meat.

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[Cutt]

Since using TSS I do notice more no flops than the lead days, although my Ohio bird this Sunday, didn't flop around but did flap his wings about 5-6 times, then nothing.

[derek]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet (my apologies if I missed it).  From my observations.. it seems like the birds that have the "no flop" often have more shot in the body, whereas the clean headshots with no other damage or anything will absolutely still flop - much like the chicken with its head cut off analogy.   Anyone agree/disagree?  Just curious if others have seen the same. 

[mountainhunter1]

Shot three this year, two with #8.5 and one with #9. The #9 out of a 20ga was stone cold dead. The #8.5 out of a 12ga didn't move till I touched him and then the typical wing flaps. The #8.5 out of a 20ga I shot him on the edge of a road and he went to flopping and fell off the side and down the mountain he went. It was straight off. He wound up 300yds or so at the bottom. And he was clobbered, like too close honestly, and not much head left to him. My buddy was back up at the road snapping pictures of my misery when I finally made it back up to the top. Here's the last 15yds or so. All that to say, it depends





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Look at the hooks on that bird. Real nice bird.

I shot one last year on the edge rim of a steep ridge at thirty steps, and he of course rolled off the side of the ridge and went all the way to the bottom a couple hundred yards below. I might not have found him except he uncharacteristically bled more like a deer instead of a turkey and I was able to eventually find the blood trail and disturbed leaves and went down hill and finally found him. I actually was not sure I was going to make it back up to the top from where I was, and being that I had been climbing ridges since way before daylight and it was at that point about four o'clock in the afternoon and I was not fresh physically at that point did not help either. It is amazing how much harder it is to scale a very step ridge when you have a 20 pound black feathered dead weight object in one hand and a shotgun on your back as you do so.

[Spurs Up]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet (my apologies if I missed it).  From my observations.. it seems like the birds that have the "no flop" often have more shot in the body, whereas the clean headshots with no other damage or anything will absolutely still flop - much like the chicken with its head cut off analogy.   Anyone agree/disagree?  Just curious if others have seen the same.

Agree completely.

[bonasa]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet (my apologies if I missed it).  From my observations.. it seems like the birds that have the "no flop" often have more shot in the body, whereas the clean headshots with no other damage or anything will absolutely still flop - much like the chicken with its head cut off analogy.   Anyone agree/disagree?  Just curious if others have seen the same.

I think you're onto something. Come to think of it thousands of waterfowl killed in spreads, grouse/woodcock off points and pass shooting crows they don't flop around like a head shot turkey, if at all! Have body shot turkey with the bow and they don't flop much. Walking turkeys that took the load to the lower neck mid stride, not so much either, or farther birds that took some to the body.

Head shot pigeons flop a ton. Bullhead shot turkeys flop a lot. Ground-pounded geese in the spread shot in head do flop too. Head and upper neck shot turkeys flop a lot.

I'm with you on the body thing. A friend brought this up a few years ago. Said, " why do birds that are far flop the least and those up close flop the most." Makes so much sense.

[Master Gobbie]

Witnessed fifteen birds go down this spring, all with TSS #9. Towards the end of our journey my buddy and I were thinking the same thing and that was, WAY less flopping!!! I'd have to agree with whoever said, probably a result of the pattern density, must increase the likely hood of hitting that one area that just shuts em down, but who knows?! But we thought it was noticeable

[Spring Creek Calls]

In my opinion there is definitely less flop, if any.

[stinkpickle]

The lower I hit them in the spinal column, the less they flop, regardless of shot type.   As mentioned earlier, a chicken can run around with its head cut off.  No shotgun pellet is going to do more damage than an ax.

[longbeards]

Tremendous knock down has been my experience with TSS...

[lunghit]

Shot one yesterday at 20 yards with TSS 8's 20 gauge and he hit the ground and didn't move till the nerves kicked in a minute or so later.