Should New Jersey Set A Max Spring Gobbler Limit?!

[Ol timer]

ol timer-- I don't  have to sit in on any meetings. The right person might read this Thread here.
    By having a fixed Max limit on Gobblers- 5 or 3- in NJ- all Turkey Hunters will benefit.
   

Let me sum this up post up easily 20 years ago quavers 59 walked into NJ woods and killed Turkey s 50 ft from his truck fast forward to 2022 he's got a hair up his  because he can't kill a turkey in the same spot as easy anymore. The residents in this state know where the birds are and do well if they wish to hunt them. Quaver59 won't do anything to support conservation or help with habitat but stir the pot for his own personal gain he's all talk. And for the record I take more than 20 birds a year and there all banded.

[quavers59]

ol timer/chenrossi of a certain NJ Hunting site. First of all you are pissed because,I Blocked you last week on that site.
   As far as taking Birds 50 feet from my Truck.-- Really... My 29th year of Turkey hunting is coming up this year. I only have access to Public Land and,I hunt mountains + Wetlands. 50ft from the truck-- really.
   Obviously  you are referring  to the picture,I posted on coming out of the " Newark Watershed" at the gate. The Man who took that picture was the Man who patrolled for the Watershed. And he checked my credentials  beforehand.
    Being the Author of 3 Turkey Hunting Books, I have a great interest in seeing the current NJ Turkey Hunting Format changed for the better. And the Awful Loophole of being able to buy a Huge number of Turkey Permits has to change in a future year.
     5 Tops or 3 Gobblers should be the Max Limit allowed for Spring Turkey Hunters in NJ. -- It is just that simple. I was actually  moving on from this Thread- but you brought me back  . That is also the reason,I had to block you for your constant PMS on the Jersey hunting site.
   Keep Squawking-- your " gravy train" will end in a future Spring when a Max limit is installed.
   Meanwhile- every time you Post- you will bring this Thread straight back to the top because you can't  stop.
   Perhaps  the right official in NJ has followed this Thread already.

[Ol timer]

First off I am not chenrossi or whoever he may be on another website you don't know who I am but I am well aware of you on certain websites from other individuals that I am contact with,you assume things with no facts. 

[GobbleNut]

I don't really want to keep jumping into the middle of the pissin' match here, but this discussion gives rise to the opportunity to discuss philosophical thoughts of turkey hunting,...so here goes: 

First off, I agree with the notion that resident hunters (and residents, in general) should be the primary voice in how the wildlife species in their states are managed.  That is one of the primary tenets of wildlife law in this country.  That is, the (non-migratory) wildlife in each state is "held in trust" for (and by) the citizens of that state. Hence, the residents should make the rules.  Unfortunately, that is why we see things like the hunting of large predators (bears, wolves) being outlawed.

That is also the reason that consumptive users (hunters, trappers, etc.) have got to walk a fine line in terms of showing the general populace that they are being responsible in how the state's wildlife is "consumed".  Piss the public off with an attitude that hunters do not care about the overall well-being of a species...and just want to kill them...and you have a sure-fire recipe for turning that general public against hunting...and the result is more and more species being treated like bears.

Will having a gobbler bag limit that allows an individual to kill (what is viewed as) an excessive number of birds result in the public turning against turkey hunting?  I can't say for sure, but I do know that it certainly doesn't help.  And more to the point, do any of us want to have our turkey populations in our states viewed as a "body count" species like, say, ducks and geese?  I, for one, do not. 

Here's a thought (which I have brought up a number of times in the past):  If your state has so many turkeys that you can allow hunters to kill umpteen of them each year, why don't you promote trapping a bunch of those birds, packing them up, and sending them to the states that are experiencing apparent drastic declines in their populations?  That attitude was wildly successful in the past, so why not try it again rather than just allowing hunters to mow down as many turkeys as they want in a state that is experiencing a period of high turkey numbers?  Do you really need to pull the trigger that many times each spring and put that many gobblers in your freezer?  If so, look in the mirror and ask yourself why?  Once you get past that facade of having to prove you are a great turkey hunter, you should not like what you see...

At least that is the view from here...

[TrackeySauresRex]

[/quote]

GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
[/quote]

Near 20? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke 

I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly    change and get on board with other states already using such laws.

I definitely understand the shell for your 410.

However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch.
[/quote]

Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate.  I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.
[/quote]

     Sir,
    I'm not being confrontational and certainly not "ignorant". I've been here a long time and so have you. I'm stating the guy is good and poked fun at it. I did not say you were a liar. Near 20 or high teens or whatever he wants to shoot have at it. (If legal) I've chased birds all over the state in NJ for a long time. I'm an ordinary average turkey hunter. But some days I'm NOT...I'm a lot worse then average. I will say... if there is illegal activity going on he should be reported! If there are hunters out there who shoot high teens/20's Which... There are very few! It's certainly not in the northern part of the state. I don't believe that to be the problem with the declining turkey population. 
Happy,Safe Hunting again.

I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....

   The checking stations definitely played a major part, this is true.  The state Biologist, the few we had would take a leg from your harvest for disease testing. This don't happen anymore and is important and needed.  I think it's more then the opossums, coons and coyotes. I've never had an application denied. My personal belief the state wants your money in the first and second lotteries and don't deny the application. They don't give two hoots about management.

[idratherb]

 

[Happy]

Welp, spring must be on its way. Sure hope it hurries up.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tom007]

I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....








No doubt that the permit fees are a major source of revenue for the NJ Division of Wildlife. We can only hope the dependency on these monies don't cloud their judgement when it comes to protecting our resources....be well, be safe...

[Bowguy]

GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
[/quote]

Near 20? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke 

I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly    change and get on board with other states already using such laws.

I definitely understand the shell for your 410.

However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch.
[/quote]

Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate.  I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.
[/quote]

     Sir,
    I'm not being confrontational and certainly not "ignorant". I've been here a long time and so have you. I'm stating the guy is good and poked fun at it. I did not say you were a liar. Near 20 or high teens or whatever he wants to shoot have at it. (If legal) I've chased birds all over the state in NJ for a long time. I'm an ordinary average turkey hunter. But some days I'm NOT...I'm a lot worse then average. I will say... if there is illegal activity going on he should be reported! If there are hunters out there who shoot high teens/20's Which... There are very few! It's certainly not in the northern part of the state. I don't believe that to be the problem with the declining turkey population. 
Happy,Safe Hunting again.

I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....

   The checking stations definitely played a major part, this is true.  The state Biologist, the few we had would take a leg from your harvest for disease testing. This don't happen anymore and is important and needed.  I think it's more then the opossums, coons and coyotes. I've never had an application denied. My personal belief the state wants your money in the first and second lotteries and don't deny the application. They don't give two hoots about management.
[/quote]

Brother excuse me for misreading you. My apologies. I pm ya earlier.

[sixbird]

I agree with a reduced gobbler limit but that had recently been rejected out of hand in the proposal. N.j. likes their revenue. Of course, if we collapse the populations, revenue will follow.
As far as .410 and tss, a.410 with tss 9's is about as effective as a 3" twelve ga. with 5's. You're not shooting 60 yds. with .410 tss.
The reason for tss is pattern density not massively increased range (although some DO think that).
Responsibility doesn't come from the weapon, it comes from the hunter.
I'm all for .410/tss. Lighter gun. WAY less recoil. A way to engage youth and women and a way for experts to increase the challenge a little.

[JeffC]

Lottery tags are up..got both of my 1st choices, let the madness begin.

[TrackeySauresRex]

Lottery tags are up..got both of my 1st choices, let the madness begin.

I know someone who was denied in week one. This never had happened before. Many applications were filed apparently. There goes my theory..