When is Enough Enough?

[tha bugman]

Everyone has opinions.  Seen it over and over.  "If you don't do it my way, then your wrong". We get divided amongst ourselves and we leave our sport open to being destroyed from the inside out instead of by anti-hunters.  I hunt legally the way I want.  I don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself. I started out learning you don't tell anything because it's not necessarily me telling someone something but it's who they will tell it to.   To me hunts have become more and more intimate and I like keeping them locked away.  I have been cussed out for not telling how many turkeys I have killed.  I just don't understand why folks get so offended.  If you want to tell me that's fine, but me not telling you doesn't mean I'm a jerk either. 


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[g8rvet]

Mentoring is a start.   Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread.  Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner).  When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.

Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences. 

Manufacturers?  None whatsoever.  People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country.  If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.

Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know.  The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even.   Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored.  ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be.  Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom.  And that carries over to hunting and fishing.  Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort.  But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly.  We are already on that path.  That patience is it's own reward.  It ain't easy though.

I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun.  I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother.  I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years.  I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot.   This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner  ). 

My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them.  Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run. 

[g8rvet]

I don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself.

Guy in my town, that I don't much care for, knows I turkey hunt and was constantly bragging to me about how he had killed 5-6 birds each year (our limit is two).  I got sick of it and when he asked me one day how I had been doing, I lied through my teeth.  "Well, lets see, I killed 2 in Alabama, 3 in Georgia, I have one left to kill in Florida and then I will go out West and try to kill 2 more.  I don't shoot over my limit but I have plenty of money to travel out of state".  He has never asked me about turkey hunting again and that was 5 years ago and I see him once a week or so. 

[eggshell]

g8rvet, well put. If you want something to change teach it to those who are just  learning. Most people will practice what they are taught and believe is right. You not only teach them how to kill but how to enjoy. So much of the hunt is stolen when we compromise just for a kill, but if all you have ever known is killing you believe that is what it is about. I love the hunt with all the strategy and learning about my quarry. I took a young man on his very first turkey hunt this year and I was asked what he needed before the hunt and I said, "good clothes, a gun (any gun), a license and a willingness to listen. I talked to him as we went out to hunt and he was curious if we'd be using decoys, what calls, a blind and so on. I told him I had a mouth call and that is all we needed. I sat right with him and as the woods came to life I explained everything that was happening around him. I pointed out the hens calling and what type of calling they were doing. I explained what the gobblers were doing. On our first set up hens got to the gobbler before us and I explained to him it was time to leave, that we would not be hounding that gobbler. We may return to him later, but we were leaving him at that time. I could tell he thought that meant defeat. However, down the road a half hour later we struck a gobbler ready to play. I sat right at his back and whispered instructions in  his ear. When I first saw the gobbler coming in strut I told him where to look, but he could not shoot it yet. After some strutting the gobbler stuck his head up at 25 yards and I told the young man take a deep breath and make sure of your aim and kill him. He done exactly that. I made him lay the bird out and smooth out his feathers and we took a picture right where the bird fell. I handed him his empty casing and explained we don't leave things behind and it makes a neat holder for the beard. I didn't know if he thought I was a goofy old man or what, but I found out later he was texting his mom all the way home how cool it was to be on this hunt. This is how you change things not getting in red faced arguments. To me the saddest part of the hunt is picking up the dead bird, but I do enjoy eating them so it is still good. I love matching whits with the toughest old toms. I understand why some use the gadgets, but I think they are missing a lot of the experience. However, I do not judge them for it, if that is reward enough for them then well done, brother. This old world has enough problems without making a grand sport miserable. So to that guy that spends a fortune on all the new fangled stuff and is excited to go gird up his man boobs and get away from the rat race for a day afield ( or just off the road) I say "have a great hunt".

Oh and on the talking about success thing, I agree that I keep it close anymore, but occasionally an asshat will be demeaning everyone and bragging about the whole dozen birds he's killed and I'll just have to bring out the photo album..... Most everyone is grateful to have loud mouth shut up.

[WNCTracker]

Mentoring is a start.   Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread.  Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner).  When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.

Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences. 

Manufacturers?  None whatsoever.  People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country.  If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.

Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know.  The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even.   Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored.  ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be.  Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom.  And that carries over to hunting and fishing.  Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort.  But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly.  We are already on that path.  That patience is it's own reward.  It ain't easy though.

I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun.  I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother.  I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years.  I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot.   This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner  ). 

My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them.  Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run.

Well thought, well put sir.


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[Happy]

Lot of good points in this discussion. I agree as hunters we should hold "the hunting industry" accountable. The sad part to me is that the suppliers of most hunting gear couldn't care less about wildlife in general. It's all about the dollar to them. TV hunting for the most part is more detrimental than positive. All it teaches is that success is more important than method or respect for the animals we hunt. Mentoring is great and wonderful but the almighty tv is reaching far more people faster and in greater numbers. This isn't a blind/decoy rant but an overall view of hunting in general. We can argue over that stuff all day long and I don't know where the real line is. I know where my personal line is and that's all that matters to me. What does scare me is the attitude that we don't care how we get what we want as long as we get it. Then it quits being hunting.

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[Greg Massey]

Lot of good points in this discussion. I agree as hunters we should hold "the hunting industry" accountable. The sad part to me is that the suppliers of most hunting gear couldn't care less about wildlife in general. It's all about the dollar to them. TV hunting for the most part is more detrimental than positive. All it teaches is that success is more important than method or respect for the animals we hunt. Mentoring is great and wonderful but the almighty tv is reaching far more people faster and in greater numbers. This isn't a blind/decoy rant but an overall view of hunting in general. We can argue over that stuff all day long and I don't know where the real line is. I know where my personal line is and that's all that matters to me. What does scare me is the attitude that we don't care how we get what we want as long as we get it. Then it quits being hunting.  X2 agree....just hunt and enjoy what God has gave us all....

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[tha bugman]

I don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself.

Guy in my town, that I don't much care for, knows I turkey hunt and was constantly bragging to me about how he had killed 5-6 birds each year (our limit is two).  I got sick of it and when he asked me one day how I had been doing, I lied through my teeth.  "Well, lets see, I killed 2 in Alabama, 3 in Georgia, I have one left to kill in Florida and then I will go out West and try to kill 2 more.  I don't shoot over my limit but I have plenty of money to travel out of state".  He has never asked me about turkey hunting again and that was 5 years ago and I see him once a week or so.

LOL!  I did almost the exact thing one time!  He was one upped more than he could  handle and had nothing else to say!


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[tha bugman]

Mentoring is a start.   Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread.  Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner).  When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.

Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences. 

Manufacturers?  None whatsoever.  People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country.  If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.

Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know.  The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even.   Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored.  ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be.  Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom.  And that carries over to hunting and fishing.  Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort.  But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly.  We are already on that path.  That patience is it's own reward.  It ain't easy though.

I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun.  I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother.  I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years.  I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot.   This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner  ). 

My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them.  Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run.

Well thought, well put sir.


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Amen!


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[WyoHunter]

For me it's about camo, a shotgun and shells. I have used a single hen decoy from time to time but I am not convinced that it helps as much as it can hurt. I think HTL can be a great tool but is often abused. Game cameras and bait are a no go. So is roost shooting electronic calls, strutter/jake decoys and blinds. Investing effort and skill into a successful hunt is what I prefer and I want to earn it.

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My thoughts exactly!