federal heavyweight question

[budtripp]

So I was in a local sporting goods store the other day and happened across several boxes of 3 inch heavyweight 7's.  Priced pretty reasonably.  I've usually avoided the flite control wad like the plague but I'm really curious about the heavyweights. 
     I have 2 turkey guns, an 870 super mag with an indian creek 665 and a Benelli SBE2 with a kicks 655.  I know indian creek chokes are a no no with the flite control wad  but what about the kicks??? I've read where the 10 ga guys are shooting heavyweight through kicks chokes so why not in the 12?

Anyone ever tried this combo? Or would I be better off trying a choke made for the flite control loads?

[owlhoot]

I have been getting around 140-160 in the ten and 300 in the twenty with a 26" Sm 870, using the Carlsons .660, .640 and the Hevi-tube.   The .660 was nice and even. All were the 3" 7's.

[allaboutshooting]

So I was in a local sporting goods store the other day and happened across several boxes of 3 inch heavyweight 7's.  Priced pretty reasonably.  I've usually avoided the flite control wad like the plague but I'm really curious about the heavyweights. 
     I have 2 turkey guns, an 870 super mag with an indian creek 665 and a Benelli SBE2 with a kicks 655.  I know indian creek chokes are a no no with the flite control wad  but what about the kicks??? I've read where the 10 ga guys are shooting heavyweight through kicks chokes so why not in the 12?

Anyone ever tried this combo? Or would I be better off trying a choke made for the flite control loads?

In either of those guns, you'll be better off with a non-ported choke tube, preferably with 1.3" of parallel section and a .650 exit diameter.

It may not be worth the investment in a new choke tube however, just to try those shells, especially if you're having good results from what you're currently shooting.

You may want to give Chuck Boswell at Kick's a call and see what he has to say about shooting those shells through his chokes. That might be helpful to you in making that decision.

Thanks,
Clark

[n2deer]

I'm curious what was the price? I would love to find a good deal on them just to get the shot. I have been loading some 2 oz loads for my 12 and love how perform.

I normally get 220-230s with them and my citori with the .665 pure golds I have.

[Devastator]

I would give the choke made by Trulock made for the Fed 7's a shot.I had excellent results in a 1187 SM and an 1187 3 inch.if you get the choke and are not satisfied you can send it back with in 60 days for a full refund.

[d.winsor]

I have heard that the flightcontrol Wad had to be shot out of a regular choke tube.  According to its engineers, the FliteControl wad is designed to deliver tight patterns with standard choke tubes.  I have read the people who have use the flightcontrol wads like an open choke, and say a regular full choke is to tight for the wads.  I have no personal experience with the wads, just what I have read.

[allaboutshooting]

I have heard that the flightcontrol Wad had to be shot out of a regular choke tube.  According to its engineers, the FliteControl wad is designed to deliver tight patterns with standard choke tubes.  I have read the people who have use the flightcontrol wads like an open choke, and say a regular full choke is to tight for the wads.  I have no personal experience with the wads, just what I have read.

I worked with the design engineer at ATK/Federal in 2004 and 2005 on the Flitecontrol Wad turkey loads with both lead and Heavyweight shot. The purpose was to determine what type of choke would work best with this wad design. I fired literally thousands of these shells from a variety of different guns with different barrel lengths and with all commercial turkey chokes that were available at that time.

As a part of that work, I examined and evaluated not only the performance of the shells on targets but the effects that various chokes had on the two different wads since the lead wad and the Heavyweight wad are of different construction.

It was frankly a long and arduous process but the information gained was quite interesting and useful in developing chokes to work with Flitecontrol Wad products.

Here's what I found in that period of my work in 2004 and 2005 working with the 12 gauge shells with #6 shot and later when Federal introduced with #7 shot.

First: The Flitecontrol Wad has a complex design in which petals and brakes are to open at specific times to influence the path of the shot and to keep the wad from disturbing the shot string. That is not easily accomplished. It, proper deployment of the Flitecontrol Wad,  is best accomplished using a non-ported choke with a crowned muzzle and an exit diameter of from .670 to .675.

Second: Proper deployment of the Flitecontrol Wad does not necessarily and frankly not often, produce the best patterns with the lead or Heavyweight shot in turkey loads. In most cases, defeating the intended purpose of the Flitecontrol Wad by compressing the wad with a tighter choke yields better results.

Third: When Federal introduced the #7 Heavyweight shot loads in both 12 gauge and 20 gauge, it became very clear that this shell was superior in every way to the #6 shot loads. The #7 shot behaved much differently and flowed better than the larger #6 shot.

Fourth: The chokes that worked best with the 12 gauge shells and #7 shot were those with about 1.3" of parallel, non-ported, with crowned or at least no notches in the muzzle and an exit diameter of about .650. The chokes that worked best with the 20 gauge shells and #7 shot were those, with or without ports and with an exit diameter of .550.

I'd like to stress that the #7 shot shells and the #6 shot shells with Heavyweight shot perform quite differently. If I were going to try these shells, I would not spend much or even any time with the #6 shot shells based upon what I've seen over the years.

Lastly, I know that some folks have had results with other types of chokes that work for them. I don't dispute this at all. I've seen too many different results with shotshells and chokes to make any claim that something can't happen. It can. My information is just based on my work with those wads over a period of several years and after firing way too many of those shells.

I am pretty much of the keep it simple school and try to find the most effective solution to a situation using the simplest tools or products possible. The Flitecontrol Wad is not a simple product.

Thanks,
Clark

[n2deer]

I have heard that the flightcontrol Wad had to be shot out of a regular choke tube.  According to its engineers, the FliteControl wad is designed to deliver tight patterns with standard choke tubes.  I have read the people who have use the flightcontrol wads like an open choke, and say a regular full choke is to tight for the wads.  I have no personal experience with the wads, just what I have read.

I worked with the design engineer at ATK/Federal in 2004 and 2005 on the Flitecontrol Wad turkey loads with both lead and Heavyweight shot. The purpose was to determine what type of choke would work best with this wad design. I fired literally thousands of these shells from a variety of different guns with different barrel lengths and with all commercial turkey chokes that were available at that time.

As a part of that work, I examined and evaluated not only the performance of the shells on targets but the effects that various chokes had on the two different wads since the lead wad and the Heavyweight wad are of different construction.

It was frankly a long and arduous process but the information gained was quite interesting and useful in developing chokes to work with Flitecontrol Wad products.

Here's what I found in that period of my work in 2004 and 2005 working with the 12 gauge shells with #6 shot and later when Federal introduced with #7 shot.

First: The Flitecontrol Wad has a complex design in which petals and brakes are to open at specific times to influence the path of the shot and to keep the wad from disturbing the shot string. That is not easily accomplished. It, proper deployment of the Flitecontrol Wad,  is best accomplished using a non-ported choke with a crowned muzzle and an exit diameter of from .670 to .675.

Second: Proper deployment of the Flitecontrol Wad does not necessarily and frankly not often, produce the best patterns with the lead or Heavyweight shot in turkey loads. In most cases, defeating the intended purpose of the Flitecontrol Wad by compressing the wad with a tighter choke yields better results.

Third: When Federal introduced the #7 Heavyweight shot loads in both 12 gauge and 20 gauge, it became very clear that this shell was superior in every way to the #6 shot loads. The #7 shot behaved much differently and flowed better than the larger #6 shot.

Fourth: The chokes that worked best with the 12 gauge shells and #7 shot were those with about 1.3" of parallel, non-ported, with crowned or at least no notches in the muzzle and an exit diameter of about .650. The chokes that worked best with the 20 gauge shells and #7 shot were those, with or without ports and with an exit diameter of .550.

I'd like to stress that the #7 shot shells and the #6 shot shells with Heavyweight shot perform quite differently. If I were going to try these shells, I would not spend much or even any time with the #6 shot shells based upon what I've seen over the years.

Lastly, I know that some folks have had results with other types of chokes that work for them. I don't dispute this at all. I've seen too many different results with shotshells and chokes to make any claim that something can't happen. It can. My information is just based on my work with those wads over a period of several years and after firing way too many of those shells.

I am pretty much of the keep it simple school and try to find the most effective solution to a situation using the simplest tools or products possible. The Flitecontrol Wad is not a simple product.

Thanks,
Clark

Clark you could have quiet possibly changed things forever for federal by strongly recommending they never used those wads.

[allaboutshooting]

Clark you could have quiet possibly changed things forever for federal by strongly recommending they never used those wads.

They were well along into their commitment to them in 2004 and my job was to find a turkey choke that would make them perform in the manner in which they wanted them to perform. They put a lot of their resources toward that goal. When that load works, it works very well.

If you shoot the #7 Heavyweight shot and use a choke like the one I described with a .650 exit diameter it can produce some good to excellent patterns.

It took a lot of work to discover that since the thought at that time was that it should be shot through a much more open choke tube.

My real contribution was that there were essentially 2 differing goals. The first to make the Flitecontrol Wad work and the second to produce the best patterns.

Thanks,
Clark

[owlhoot]

So what if anything worked with 6 shot in the HW and lead ?

[allaboutshooting]

So what if anything worked with 6 shot in the HW and lead ?

Those #6 lead loads respond to the .650 chokes because they have a softer wad than is used in the #6 Heavyweight shells.

The #6 Heavyweight shells work with very clean non-ported .660 chokes as well as anything else but can be very inconsistent. Plastic build up in the choke can cause some serious problems. I just can't recommend the #6 shot loads because of that.

Thanks,
Clark