Spring Allure makes a good one in both. For ceramic, try Houndstooth or Stumpy. M,Yingling makes a killer copper pot that is easy to run. He has several sound files posted on here. Ricky with Spring Allure has some YouTube videos of his ceramic and copper calls. Lyle(Houndstooth) and Stumpy(Dominator) will run calls over the phone for you. All three are great guys and make some good calls.