Read something interesting and was just pondering

[savduck]

I did a goggle search yesterday after I posted this to see what study's have been done. There have been a few, but most weren't to in depth.

One study was very detailed. It discussed deer, grouse, and turkey predation by coyotes.  Long story short, the issue from the coyotes is not on adult deer or turkeys. It is on fawns and nesting hens.  It said in their study 55% percent of the coyotes diet was fawns. They severely impacted the deer herd in that area. when talking about turkeys vs grouse. The study did not give a percentage of diet, but yet discuss the impact on nesting. Apparently even though hens will re-nest, once their original nest is destroyed their re- nesting attempts are far less successful. Broad size if successful is considerably lower. It said there is a direct link to the poult to hen ratio...which is what I brought up in my first post. This study also had areas where active coyote trapping killing was being done, and brood numbers for turkeys and fawns were way up.


So from my research, it is evident to me that coyotes do a lot of damage, but the most important time for me to make an impact is during the nesting season. The most damage to our turkeys is coming from all predators during the nesting cycle. Again not only do we lose the poults/eggs just laid, but also the re-nesting efforts are far less successful.

[870FaceLift]

I don't think coyotes are a huge problem for the turkeys on our properties, either.  We have a lot of them though.  I killed three of them in January in fifteen minutes in the same spot from a deer stand.  I've seen hens not even pay a lick of attention to coyotes in open fields that are within 75 yards of them in Ohio.  Our biggest problem seems to also be raccoons and possums.  I can't carry enough arrows/ammo to clean them out during the seasons.  They're everywhere and they are always scouring around known nesting sites.  It's a wonder any poults make it...

[Andy S.]

Read  two articles in GON that had me thinking. One was about poult per hen survival over the last 25 years, the other was a survey by deer hunters rating their season.

Can you point me to this article? I would like to read it as well.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

I did a goggle search yesterday after I posted this to see what study's have been done. There have been a few, but most weren't to in depth.

One study was very detailed. It discussed deer, grouse, and turkey predation by coyotes.  Long story short, the issue from the coyotes is not on adult deer or turkeys. It is on fawns and nesting hens.  It said in their study 55% percent of the coyotes diet was fawns. They severely impacted the deer herd in that area. when talking about turkeys vs grouse. The study did not give a percentage of diet, but yet discuss the impact on nesting. Apparently even though hens will re-nest, once their original nest is destroyed their re- nesting attempts are far less successful. Broad size if successful is considerably lower. It said there is a direct link to the poult to hen ratio...which is what I brought up in my first post. This study also had areas where active coyote trapping killing was being done, and brood numbers for turkeys and fawns were way up.


So from my research, it is evident to me that coyotes do a lot of damage, but the most important time for me to make an impact is during the nesting season. The most damage to our turkeys is coming from all predators during the nesting cycle. Again not only do we lose the poults/eggs just laid, but also the re-nesting efforts are far less successful.

If this study you are citing was the one conducted in South Carolina, it is a very poor example due to the fact thy the habitat is very, very poor when assessed from a fawning and brooding perspective.

[WNM]

I did a goggle search yesterday after I posted this to see what study's have been done. There have been a few, but most weren't to in depth.

One study was very detailed. It discussed deer, grouse, and turkey predation by coyotes.  Long story short, the issue from the coyotes is not on adult deer or turkeys. It is on fawns and nesting hens.  It said in their study 55% percent of the coyotes diet was fawns. They severely impacted the deer herd in that area. when talking about turkeys vs grouse. The study did not give a percentage of diet, but yet discuss the impact on nesting. Apparently even though hens will re-nest, once their original nest is destroyed their re- nesting attempts are far less successful. Broad size if successful is considerably lower. It said there is a direct link to the poult to hen ratio...which is what I brought up in my first post. This study also had areas where active coyote trapping killing was being done, and brood numbers for turkeys and fawns were way up.


So from my research, it is evident to me that coyotes do a lot of damage, but the most important time for me to make an impact is during the nesting season. The most damage to our turkeys is coming from all predators during the nesting cycle. Again not only do we lose the poults/eggs just laid, but also the re-nesting efforts are far less successful.

If this study you are citing was the one conducted in South Carolina, it is a very poor example due to the fact thy the habitat is very, very poor when assessed from a fawning and brooding perspective.

Grouse in SC?...

The Savannah River Site research has shown how big of an impact coyotes are having on deer. Something like a 76% fawn mortality rate last year. Years ago, the rate wasn't anything close to that. Regardless of fawn habitat (I'm not sure where in the world you got that that swampland is poor habitat...), there's huge difference, attributed to coyotes.

My buddy worked on site last year and is working again there now. He say's it's loaded with turkeys, despite the coyotes. There was something like 23 out of 24 hunters killing a gobbler on the disabled/youth (I can't remember which it was) hunt there this spring. That's in one day.

[savduck]

I did a goggle search yesterday after I posted this to see what study's have been done. There have been a few, but most weren't to in depth.

One study was very detailed. It discussed deer, grouse, and turkey predation by coyotes.  Long story short, the issue from the coyotes is not on adult deer or turkeys. It is on fawns and nesting hens.  It said in their study 55% percent of the coyotes diet was fawns. They severely impacted the deer herd in that area. when talking about turkeys vs grouse. The study did not give a percentage of diet, but yet discuss the impact on nesting. Apparently even though hens will re-nest, once their original nest is destroyed their re- nesting attempts are far less successful. Broad size if successful is considerably lower. It said there is a direct link to the poult to hen ratio...which is what I brought up in my first post. This study also had areas where active coyote trapping killing was being done, and brood numbers for turkeys and fawns were way up.


So from my research, it is evident to me that coyotes do a lot of damage, but the most important time for me to make an impact is during the nesting season. The most damage to our turkeys is coming from all predators during the nesting cycle. Again not only do we lose the poults/eggs just laid, but also the re-nesting efforts are far less successful.

If this study you are citing was the one conducted in South Carolina, it is a very poor example due to the fact thy the habitat is very, very poor when assessed from a fawning and brooding perspective.

No it wasn't. I didn't see that one.

[savduck]

Read  two articles in GON that had me thinking. One was about poult per hen survival over the last 25 years, the other was a survey by deer hunters rating their season.

Can you point me to this article? I would like to read it as well.

Yes, It was a GON article in a preseason publication. Try February or March of this year. It had an article about turkeys and the preseason forecast...that had the poult per hen info and commentary. The second article was a deer survey in the same issue.

[Eric Gregg]

I am not sure what causes the decline in particular, I believe that it is probably a combination of all things mentioned. Turkeys have so many predators after them  and primarily their eggs that survival from egg to hatch is almost a miracle.

I can say that in the last 5 years of my hunting seasons (deer) I have seen more Yotes and Bobs than all of my combined 22 years in the woods. Cut over has increased, fire ants are everywhere (i had to clean them out of my hoot flute one morning in the dark), and also their has been an explosion of turkey hunters and a decrease in lands capable of holding and sustaining flocks. Mix that all together and flocks will decline in number.

[Kylongspur88]

IMO the bobcats are harder on the adult birds here than the coyotes. The coons and possums are really hard on nests. I do think the coyotes are hard on the fawn population and I go after them any Chance I get. I also think that the you must kill every doe to get a 1 to 1 ratio mentality has really hurt deer populations. Some people call this qdma, but I think it's idiocy.