Let's Get Real

[sixbird]

An area I hunt was promoted by NWTF, because NWTF put in a half acre food plot on national forest. The population was in decline. There weren't a whole lot of birds left. The next year the harvest in the area skyrocketed. DNR published and bragged in the magazine. I had people waiting by my jeep for me to come out so they could go in. Waiting in line! The next year the bottom dropped out of the harvest numbers while pressure continued. The birds we locals were killing were mostly at end of season and limbhangers.

The pressure finally dropped off this year, I would guess because published harvest data showed no birds. The point I'm trying to make is turkeys cannot withstand that level of pressure. It isn't a question of fairness to the hunter. It's that turkey populations can't take the pressure.

Also one of us needs a new job before life passes him by.

This is a great point!
As turkey numbers decline, people move to more populated areas (populated with turkeys) and those areas are decimated. Then they move to the next area. Sooner or later, there will be nowhere to move to.
The leasing thing, to me, is a scourge.
We have an outfit here up north that is trying to capitalize on it. They're setting themselves up to profit from brokering between you, the hunter, and the farmer. They're nothing more than leeches.


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[joey46]

Demonizing OOS hunters is a fools game.  For my last few OOS trips if I rented a vehicle I always requested one with the local state's tag.  I may have been at someone's secret spot and was incognito. That is said tongue in cheek but is a good tip for any OOS hunters.  That and always buying the damage waiver. 

[DumpTruckTurkey]

Amen to that!  To the guy whining about work, kids, wife, gas, vacation time and everything else... no one cares!
You should have deleted that post awhile ago.

Im only skimming this cry baby OOS threads and not reading every whiny bc its all a little ridiculous.  SMH

[Spurs]

Nobody wants an all out ban on NRs. What they do want is a cap on sales. This avoids drastic increases in pressure and keep hunting enjoyable. Just because you're used to combat hunting 2 gobblers on 1k acres of public with 20 other people doesn't mean everyone should have to deal with that. This is a problem that has crept up state by state from the southeast. Their state goes to crap, changes are made too late, they move on to the next state and the cycle continues. There needs to be proactive, not reactive changes to regulations.

I totally disagree with that statement.  Many do actually want a total ban on some areas.  This is what we have seen in Arkansas with duck hunting and the new regulations on NR has proven to be a total nightmare.

On state land, NR cannot hunt two of the splits.  The second split this year was an all out crap show.  During the shortened NR hunting periods, the amount of hunters quadrupled, boat ramps were blocked 3 days before opening, all out CHAOS.

As an AR duck hunter, regulating NR is like opening pandora's box.  You may think it's a great idea at first, but you have to really think beyond your narrow experiences to see what the potential fall out could be.  I think MS may have gotten something figured out with the way their system is laid out though.  The only problem that I have heard of is that they saw a huge uptick in NR when they were totally opened up.  Many more than was typical when it was just open to everyone on the same date.

All I am saying is to be careful with what you wish for, it did not turn out well for AR duck hunting and I don't see it going away any time soon.

[joey46]

I'm going to drop out of these OOS discussions. They have long entered the dead horse category.  I checked with some long established contacts and have my 2023 OOS just about in the bag.  The days of posting pictures and mentioning locations has ended.  Too bad.  It was fun - at times.

[Marc]

As turkey numbers decline, people move to more populated areas (populated with turkeys) and those areas are decimated. Then they move to the next area. Sooner or later, there will be nowhere to move to.

This here is the bottom line...  Many hunters with the attitude "I like to turkey hunt, there are no more turkeys where I live, I am going to travel to where there are some to hunt."  More and more areas get over-hunted, no increase in bird numbers, and that cycle continues.

As turkey numbers decline, hunters are looking for birds to hunt.  Hunting by nature is a fairly selfish activity, which can easily be seen by many of the posts on this thread.

Best solution is to improve habitat to produce more birds and wildlife in general.  Programs to CRP where private land-owners are incentivized (financially) to keep ag lands fallow, or to implement habitat improvements on non-ag land.

Takes money...  Lot's of it.  It will have to come privately from hunters and hunting organizations...  And most people will not get to hunt the areas that have been improved, cause they are privately owned.

As the population increases, and the access to land decreases, hunting will follow the path of European countries with hunting becoming more and more of an elitist activity...  Not sure I see a solution to that?

The leasing thing, to me, is a scourge.
We have an outfit here up north that is trying to capitalize on it. They're setting themselves up to profit from brokering between you, the hunter, and the farmer. They're nothing more than leeches.

Just like with anything else, there will be a-holes...  If it is a scam, with the Internet, word will get around, people will stop paying.  If people are having good hunting experiences, and the land-owners are making money, it will continue.

And...

As far as the Internet, I have watched the "Hunting Public."  For the most part, they attempt not to spot burn, and post up fairly ethical hunting situations, using reasonably good hunting strategies.  Yes, some people have seen this and think "Hey, I could do that too!"

But (outside of decreasing turkey numbers), by far and large one of the biggest factors leading to the increase of "traveling hunters" are apps such as OnX or Gaia.  Apps that tell you where you can hunt, and give you a layout of the topography...  With directions on how to get there.  And everyone has access to these.  They are wonderful apps...  But with them, there are no longer the secret spots that were hard earned through hours if not years of scouting and investigation.  These apps also have private landowners getting hit up by anyone and everyone to get access on their land to hunt.

The Internet and social media is undoubtedly causing some serious issues in our society...  The changing attitudes and entitlement seen in hunting is a very small scale of what is generally happening in society, and falls pretty far down the list of concerns for me currently...

We have drag queens dancing for young children, and it is being advocated for boys to play in girls sports and use the girls locker-room, and we are complaining about how the Internet is ruining hunting?

[Spurs]

As turkey numbers decline, people move to more populated areas (populated with turkeys) and those areas are decimated. Then they move to the next area. Sooner or later, there will be nowhere to move to.

This here is the bottom line...  Many hunters with the attitude "I like to turkey hunt, there are no more turkeys where I live, I am going to travel to where there are some to hunt."  More and more areas get over-hunted, no increase in bird numbers, and that cycle continues.

As turkey numbers decline, hunters are looking for birds to hunt.  Hunting by nature is a fairly selfish activity, which can easily be seen by many of the posts on this thread.

Best solution is to improve habitat to produce more birds and wildlife in general.  Programs to CRP where private land-owners are incentivized (financially) to keep ag lands fallow, or to implement habitat improvements on non-ag land.

Takes money...  Lot's of it.  It will have to come privately from hunters and hunting organizations...  And most people will not get to hunt the areas that have been improved, cause they are privately owned.

As the population increases, and the access to land decreases, hunting will follow the path of European countries with hunting becoming more and more of an elitist activity...  Not sure I see a solution to that?

The leasing thing, to me, is a scourge.
We have an outfit here up north that is trying to capitalize on it. They're setting themselves up to profit from brokering between you, the hunter, and the farmer. They're nothing more than leeches.

Just like with anything else, there will be a-holes...  If it is a scam, with the Internet, word will get around, people will stop paying.  If people are having good hunting experiences, and the land-owners are making money, it will continue.

And...

As far as the Internet, I have watched the "Hunting Public."  For the most part, they attempt not to spot burn, and post up fairly ethical hunting situations, using reasonably good hunting strategies.  Yes, some people have seen this and think "Hey, I could do that too!"

But (outside of decreasing turkey numbers), by far and large one of the biggest factors leading to the increase of "traveling hunters" are apps such as OnX or Gaia.  Apps that tell you where you can hunt, and give you a layout of the topography...  With directions on how to get there.  And everyone has access to these.  They are wonderful apps...  But with them, there are no longer the secret spots that were hard earned through hours if not years of scouting and investigation.  These apps also have private landowners getting hit up by anyone and everyone to get access on their land to hunt.

The Internet and social media is undoubtedly causing some serious issues in our society...  The changing attitudes and entitlement seen in hunting is a very small scale of what is generally happening in society, and falls pretty far down the list of concerns for me currently...

We have drag queens dancing for young children, and it is being advocated for boys to play in girls sports and use the girls locker-room, and we are complaining about how the Internet is ruining hunting?

Hey now!!!  Leave GAIA out of this...don't want that lil secret out to the masses. 

I have a different theory behind the competitiveness behind turkey hunting now though.  I think it is the big BIG BIG names.  Primos, MADD, Realtree, etc.  Those are the hooping/hollaring, face painters, reaping, and social media OGs (not Oldgobblers).  They post pics with half a dozen birds in Kansas/Texas with a reaping decoy and brag about 70+ yard shotguns.  You don't see that with the big names in YT.

[Kylongspur88]

Scott, where do you live that you can't find hunting within 3 hours due to crowds??

My standard drive to hunt (as I live where turkeys don't exist) is 3 plus hours away. However I drive it for single day hunts when that's all I have! I drove 6 hours to hunt one morning this year.

Sometimes you either want it or you don't.


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I'm in central KY, the public ground around me is in the northern, north eastern, or eastern part of the state for the most part. The closest place i have to go is an hour, the farthest place I've been is 2 hours and 40 something minutes almost in TN. Not quite 3 hours but close enough in my book. And every piece of public land that I've ventured to this year has had a massive increase of OOS hunters this season spanning from northern Ky to as far south East as you can get. And I'm not the only one noticing it. Opening day, I went out for an afternoon hunt, from 12:30 until around 2:30 I was driving trying to find a place that didn't have multiple vehicles at every gate, I found one gate that was empty and went in, had a bird coming in silently strutting, and here comes two guys walking through and go past me at 50 yards. Back to the truck and driving, spent until fly up doing the same thing I did since 12:30. Put over 400 miles on the truck and spanned 7 counties to find one public gate open. The next day I drove from 3am until 9 am to find a spot that I knew likely didn't hold birds, someone shot a turkey off the side of the blacktop road with me watching, back to driving. It's been the common theme this season. That's unfortunate that you have to travel that far, are you at least getting the opportunity to hunt when you get there?. Myself and other locals of these areas are not. Unless we just pull in behind them and give them the same courtesy that we've received.


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I'm in central Kentucky too. I'm a native hillbilly but now I'm just outside Lexington. We probably know some of the same public spots. There's one in particular about 20ish minutes from my house that used to be a pretty good spot and I've hunted it for many years but at this point it's just not worth my time. I've been in this area for a good while and the turkey hunters I know, myself included have all been amazed at how bad it's been the past few years and especially this year. Public land is overcrowded with oos hunters and when some of those folks aren't having luck on public they start cruising the backroads real slow with the windows down. At this point I'm either driving a few hours back to the mountains to hunt private or an hour and a half plus to hunt public that is so rough and god forsaken that few people venture there. It's the type of place you take a backup gun for your backup gun.

[joey46]

Always enjoy the threads with the implied threats.  That's a law enforcement problem.  We've had a few during this series of post mentioning trucks being vandalized.  A little felony well worth protecting an area open to all.  Pfttt!

[WV Flopper]

 Marc, I enjoyed reading your post. I agree.

I have said for many years, many years. That turkey hunting was too commercialized, it's pretty obvious now.