Turkey research insight. Dr. Chamberlain

[Dtrkyman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6E82SM5FAY

The last 4 or so minutes are particularly interesting and concerning!

[roosterstraw]

Thanks for sharing.

[ChesterCopperpot]

Thanks for posting this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owlhoot]

Thanks for posting this up

[GobbleNut]

At the risk of being redundant again, since I have brought it up a number of times in the past, I will summarize the video and problem we have in wild turkey management as simply as possible.  Here it is (as was stated by Dr. Chamberlain in the video):  We are experiencing turkey population declines due to REPRODUCTIVE FAILURE OVER TIME!  In the video, we hear about the reasons for that reproductive failure (won't list them again here), and we hear about possible solutions.  To me, the most obvious solution was not even mentioned in the video, nor is it rarely brought up when these discussions about turkey declines.

Yes, there are places where turkey numbers have plummeted in this country.  On the other hand, there are also many places where turkeys are thriving, and in fact, are a nuisance problem.  I look at that situation and go "Duhhhh"!  The most obvious short-term remedy to the lack of reproductive success is ARTIFICIAL SUPPLEMENTATION OF THE RESOURCE by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places without!!!  Yet, that solution is NEVER brought up (as far as I have seen) by professional wildlife managers like Chamberlain (and even though that is how we got turkeys in lots of places we have them now!)

Here's the deal.  Reproductive failure in turkey populations is generally not a constant thing.  There are years when reproduction is non-existent, and there are years when turkeys, for whatever reason, reproduce successfully.  When those successful years occur, we need to have as many adult turkeys on that landscape as we can at that time.  We need to make sure they are there,...and the way to do that is to have on ongoing program across this country to SUPPLEMENT THE RESOURCE where it is needed! 

The wild turkeys are available in places to do this.  We just have to have the willpower and willingness to "think outside the box" to implement the programs, coordination, and funding to do it (I suppose I will make the comment here that the best organization to rally behind this and provide funding is pretty obvious).  The states where everybody is screaming "we have too few turkeys left" need to be getting with the states that are screaming "we have too many turkeys" and do what is obvious!  Catch some of the freaking turkeys that are a nuisance in one place and take them to the place where they are gone and put them out there on the landscape for cryin' out loud!

Yeah, yeah, yeah,...I already hear the response and it is this:  "The turkeys that are there are not reproducing now, so why would we just put more turkeys there?"  The reason is that, again, you want to have as many adult turkeys in the population as you can when that year comes along when they successfully reproduce!  The fewer the number of hen turkeys you have in the population, the greater the frequency of successful nesting years you have to have to ensure the survival of that population.  Conversely, keeping a greater number of hen turkeys (as well as the necessary number of gobblers to accomplish breeding saturation) in a population means that you need fewer successful reproductive years to maintain and/or increase that population. 

Adult turkeys are generally pretty resilient.  Without excessive human-related mortality, they are likely to live several years once they reach adulthood.  If a hen turkey lives five, six, or seven years (for example), there is a better possibility that she will, at some point in her lifetime, pull off a successful clutch in which some of her poults survive to adulthood.  In those years when one hen does that, it is because the conditions were right,...not only for her, but also likely for the other adult hens that are out there on the landscape.  Again, when that year comes along when conditions are right for that successful hatch to take place, you want to have an adequate number of hens reproducing to maximize the benefits to that population. (I won't even get into the potential genetic benefits in this discussion)

This is not rocket science folks.  It does not take a someone with a wildlife management degree (although I do have one) to understand simple math.  The fact is that we have the excess turkeys in some places to put in those places that need them.  It is high time we put two and two together and come up with four!  Yes, we need to keep working on solving the problems that exist with all the rest of the stuff that is keeping turkey numbers down, but in the meantime, let's keep enough turkeys on the landscape so they can 1) flourish once we solve those problems and 2) in the meantime, maximize the population benefits when those occasional good hatches occur.  The turkeys are available to do that, so let's "pull our heads out" and get it done!

[Dtrkyman]

Valid points, but where are the birds coming from, try and sell that to a bunch of hunters with good numbers in a particular area.

So the state comes in and tells the guys, we have been managing our birds really well, but some clowns elsewhere have not, so we are going to trap birds here and give them to these poor fools.

Illinois traded turkeys to Indy for river otters years ago, we have lots of otters these days and turkeys are generally declining.

If you transplant the birds to an area with good habitat it definitely works, it is how the turkey got where it was, but moving turkeys from a good situation to a bad one is a short term solution.   

[bigriverbum]

what's the difference?

guys piss and moan about local numbers and then travel all over shooting multiple birds in other places.

so now we gotta bring the birds to them?

[arkrem870]

I hear Maine has plenty. Should trap and relocate them

[GobbleNut]

Valid points, but where are the birds coming from, try and sell that to a bunch of hunters with good numbers in a particular area.

So the state comes in and tells the guys, we have been managing our birds really well, but some clowns elsewhere have not, so we are going to trap birds here and give them to these poor fools.

Illinois traded turkeys to Indy for river otters years ago, we have lots of otters these days and turkeys are generally declining.

If you transplant the birds to an area with good habitat it definitely works, it is how the turkey got where it was, but moving turkeys from a good situation to a bad one is a short term solution.   

Yours are valid points, as well.  I get that concern,...and there are certainly places where translocating turkeys from those areas is counterproductive to the interests of sportsmen, and possibly the wild turkey resource itself, and should not be done.  However, there are plenty of places where folks are trying to get turkeys removed in situations where they are not being hunted at all and/or are considered pests or a nuisance species. 

Just a few days ago, we were talking here on OG about turkeys in a state where a local from that area stated that there were lots of turkeys but many of them were concentrated in urban areas where they are not hunted.  There are also places, even on public lands, where there are enough turkeys and enough reliable reproductive success to sustain trap and transplant programs without impacting overall turkey numbers there.  The point being that there are, without question, areas in this country where we have the available resource to have sustainable "trap and transplant" efforts that would not impact the local sportsmen's interests (or the resident turkey numbers over time) at all.

I agree also that translocating birds to places where reproductive failure is the primary culprit to declining turkey numbers is not "the" long-term solution.  As I stated, we have to solve that problem, but we need to have a sustainable turkey population "on the ground" there to do that.  Having T&T programs in place to maintain that sustainable population level is a key element in that equation, in my opinion, and is a feasible and realistic approach to resolving our current turkey declines in those areas of concern.   

Now, granted, the "fly in the ointment" here may be the bureaucratic hoops and the societal acceptance of programs that are fundamentally designed by hunters to increase numbers of huntable species, but that is an issue unto itself.  In my opinion, however, wild turkey managers who are not exploring options for supplementing turkey populations that are in peril are doing a disservice to not only turkey hunters, but to the resource itself. 

[bwhana]

I have enough gray hair to see through political speak, and I'm wise enough to always question everything said and always follow the $ to get to the root of any situation.

While I do think Dr. Chamberlain and the NWTF care about turkeys; the hard truth is that the population boom and now bust have occurred under their watch, and they have simply failed.  He says now that they need more research and regional cooperation, but that should have been screamed from the mountain tops long before now.  It is also hard to ignore the fact that his very livelyhood is based on research funding, so it is no surprise that he recommends more there as a first step.

In the business world and most others, when someone cannot get the job done, they are gone, and someone else is brought in to fix it.  I fully agree with more research and cooperation, as he states, but only with new folks at the helm that were not in charge during the decline.

Unfortunately, our best hope lies in Fauchi and his cronies to manipulate the Wuhan flu to affect nest raiders, yotes, and bobcats, like they did for humans, and solve much of this in the next winter of death!

[JohnSouth22]

I hear Maine has plenty. Should trap and relocate them

No lie a property I hunt in Maine just did that 2 winters ago. Shipped them off to Texas. Devastated the property and went from a hotspot to not hearing a gobble from it. Farmer allowed it because they ravaged his crops.

[nativeks]

I have enough gray hair to see through political speak, and I'm wise enough to always question everything said and always follow the $ to get to the root of any situation.

While I do think Dr. Chamberlain and the NWTF care about turkeys; the hard truth is that the population boom and now bust have occurred under their watch, and they have simply failed.  He says now that they need more research and regional cooperation, but that should have been screamed from the mountain tops long before now.  It is also hard to ignore the fact that his very livelyhood is based on research funding, so it is no surprise that he recommends more there as a first step.

In the business world and most others, when someone cannot get the job done, they are gone, and someone else is brought in to fix it.  I fully agree with more research and cooperation, as he states, but only with new folks at the helm that were not in charge during the decline.

Unfortunately, our best hope lies in Fauchi and his cronies to manipulate the Wuhan flu to affect nest raiders, yotes, and bobcats, like they did for humans, and solve much of this in the next winter of death!

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but our legislature makes the wildlife management decisions. They employ biologists, the biologist make plans and then the state doesn't follow them because they don't want to lose revenue. Probably why the biologist that made our plan quit and went elsewhere. At the meeting when the NWTF, former biologist, and numerous hunters asked them to follow the management plan I heard people say how much revenue do we stand to lose at least 3 times and they still won't follow it as written. I fully expected that biologist to quit at that meeting. He hasn't though.

[bwhana]

I have enough gray hair to see through political speak, and I'm wise enough to always question everything said and always follow the $ to get to the root of any situation.

While I do think Dr. Chamberlain and the NWTF care about turkeys; the hard truth is that the population boom and now bust have occurred under their watch, and they have simply failed.  He says now that they need more research and regional cooperation, but that should have been screamed from the mountain tops long before now.  It is also hard to ignore the fact that his very livelyhood is based on research funding, so it is no surprise that he recommends more there as a first step.

In the business world and most others, when someone cannot get the job done, they are gone, and someone else is brought in to fix it.  I fully agree with more research and cooperation, as he states, but only with new folks at the helm that were not in charge during the decline.

Unfortunately, our best hope lies in Fauchi and his cronies to manipulate the Wuhan flu to affect nest raiders, yotes, and bobcats, like they did for humans, and solve much of this in the next winter of death!

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but our legislature makes the wildlife management decisions. They employ biologists, the biologist make plans and then the state doesn't follow them because they don't want to lose revenue. Probably why the biologist that made our plan quit and went elsewhere. At the meeting when the NWTF, former biologist, and numerous hunters asked them to follow the management plan I heard people say how much revenue do we stand to lose at least 3 times and they still won't follow it as written. I fully expected that biologist to quit at that meeting. He hasn't though.

I understand that part too and agree with you, but I was trying to stay out of the political side if it.   Given the demographics of this country, there is almost nothing we can truly do as hunters on the political side now.

[dzsmith]

Some of the states with high declines have excessive amounts of hunters and hunting pressure .... Many of the states where they are thriving ....don't. If you kill them as fast as they manifest how do you expect to keep a thriving population. The sport has become quite popular.... The moment you start messing with bag limits , regs , opportunity, etc...... folks get pissed real quick .