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This is my thoughts I was posting on a thread that just disappeared...

I would like to see it stop. A couple people that I know that do it also to things against the law, like taking more than the legal limit, trespassing... I'm not saying all people that reap turkeys are like that but I'm afraid too many are. It already helps people limit out more than they would by just decoys setup and calling. At a time when turkey numbers and decline are on everyone's mind, I think it might be time for us to consider if it should be allowed. I know it's tricky, because it's really just a decoy you use in front of yourself...
I'm not saying everyone that does it is a bad person. I'm also sure that it's probably fun. It's not the way I want to kill them though. I don't think it's overall good for turkeys.
In the future we are going to have to make decisions, for turkeys and not for ourselves. I personally have not hunted areas with major declines but it concerns me that people are. Habitat improvements, season date changes and reduced bag limits, are things that may need to be addressed. We also may need to look at our hunting practices.

Laws are only for law abiding citizens.  My concern with it the whole concept is for the safety of the person carrying or sitting behind a full strutting decoy. And a bigger concern for someone being fooled by a very life like strutting Turkey and mistakenly shooting it. I personally condone it and advise against it on those two concerns alone. It's just a  decoy and even though the folks trying to sale these things are always going to show how well they work. I would say more often than not they don't. 

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I am sure it disappeared for a reason.

Though I am against it I find it funny that those that are so strongly against it simply because it is not "traditional" and claim we should only be hunting "traditionally" are often going out there and using TSS and saying that is okay. I am not saying it is not okay to use TSS but if you are going to argue on the base of traditional then please, get a string bow or a flint lock muzzle loader a wingbone call and go traditional all the way or stop judging others ways of hunting based on what on what is "traditional". Also how many of them are wearing camo? That is not "traditional" in the way it is done with clothing, go smear mud on your naked flesh for camo the way it was done "Traditionally"

Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2020, 12:34:31 PM
Though I am against it I find it funny that those that are so strongly against it simply because it is not "traditional" and claim we should only be hunting "traditionally" are often going out there and using TSS and saying that is okay. I am not saying it is not okay to use TSS but if you are going to argue on the base of traditional then please, get a string bow or a flint lock muzzle loader a wingbone call and go traditional all the way or stop judging others ways of hunting based on what on what is "traditional". Also how many of them are wearing camo? That is not "traditional" in the way it is done with clothing, go smear mud on your naked flesh for camo the way it was done "Traditionally"

I said nothing about "traditional".
I don't use TSS because I don't fancy spending that much on each shell.
I would bet using a turkey fan to kill turkeys was done before the pilgrims ever got here...

I'm sure the Indians were doing some style of reaping. If they didn't kill something they didn't eat. It feels like more of an outdoor channel tv show kind of thing now. Like I said before if it's legal then have fun. It's not for me. I also don't like the safety aspects.  Whatever gets you excited about turkey hunting is a good thing up until it's effectiveness starts to influence the amount of tags that are allowed. If something new directly leads to me be allowed to kill fewer turkeys then I would be disappointed about that. Not saying that will happen with reaping though.


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I don't personally do it, but if it is legal then go for it. I don't do it for the same reason that I am extremely selective about using a gobbler decoy(or any decoy for that matter) or a gobble call; I hunt a heavily pressured wma in Florida, and getting shot in the face would really suck.

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It's not anything that i care to do, but if it's legal and you feel the need to do it , then go for it ... but realize , whatever happens to you or someone else, it's your on fault good or bad .... you will have to live with it forever.

So start another thread about the same dead horse???

Quote from: CAPTJJ on February 26, 2020, 02:41:18 PM
So start another thread about the same dead horse???

It's about dead turkeys.

Tennessees management refuse to listen. Limits need lowered and season dates need changing. The people who buy the licenses and spend more time observing turkeys have been saying it for years and they dont listen. Sorry to say but in some places it may be too late. We have cwd in our deer, asian carp in our rivers and a decline in our turkeys. The Tennessee wild life reaources agency should be called the Tennessee wildlife mismanagement of reaources agency. They are an absolute, total joke. But, back to the original thread, if the limit was reduced to two and season shortened kill them any legal way you want. Where I hunt there are a lot of very large timber rattlers so if you want to crawl around behind a turkey fan go for it.

Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 26, 2020, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2020, 12:34:31 PM
Though I am against it I find it funny that those that are so strongly against it simply because it is not "traditional" and claim we should only be hunting "traditionally" are often going out there and using TSS and saying that is okay. I am not saying it is not okay to use TSS but if you are going to argue on the base of traditional then please, get a string bow or a flint lock muzzle loader a wingbone call and go traditional all the way or stop judging others ways of hunting based on what on what is "traditional". Also how many of them are wearing camo? That is not "traditional" in the way it is done with clothing, go smear mud on your naked flesh for camo the way it was done "Traditionally"

I said nothing about "traditional".
I don't use TSS because I don't fancy spending that much on each shell.
I would bet using a turkey fan to kill turkeys was done before the pilgrims ever got here...

It was not a commented directed at you, it was a comment on how I feel those that are against certain things because it does not fit into their narrow little window of thought look. I am not for it because from what I have seen it makes it much to easy to get one or highers the percentage to a dangerous point but even more so because of the safety.

Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2020, 03:41:39 PM

Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 26, 2020, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2020, 12:34:31 PM
Though I am against it I find it funny that those that are so strongly against it simply because it is not "traditional" and claim we should only be hunting "traditionally" are often going out there and using TSS and saying that is okay. I am not saying it is not okay to use TSS but if you are going to argue on the base of traditional then please, get a string bow or a flint lock muzzle loader a wingbone call and go traditional all the way or stop judging others ways of hunting based on what on what is "traditional". Also how many of them are wearing camo? That is not "traditional" in the way it is done with clothing, go smear mud on your naked flesh for camo the way it was done "Traditionally"

I said nothing about "traditional".
I don't use TSS because I don't fancy spending that much on each shell.
I would bet using a turkey fan to kill turkeys was done before the pilgrims ever got here...

It was not a commented directed at you, it was a comment on how I feel those that are against certain things because it does not fit into their narrow little window of thought look. I am not for it because from what I have seen it makes it much to easy to get one or highers the percentage to a dangerous point but even more so because of the safety.

Thanks for clarifying.
Most of us just have our window to look through. With time and experience some people getting a better view. I'm for all hunters, I just hope that we can make proper adjustments when needed.
I also believe it's not the safest practice.

Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 26, 2020, 02:54:40 PM

Quote from: CAPTJJ on February 26, 2020, 02:41:18 PM
So start another thread about the same dead horse???

I agree

Good grief Charley Brown, not this same old crap again :TrainWreck1:

I guess this has been talked about and hashed over a lot but even though I knew what it was I really didn't know much about it "untill" I stared watching the countless videos on you tube.
  Im gonna say its not for me at all. Its just not the same as calling one in. That said I can see the allure of it .

The reaping subject has been beaten like a dead horse , go ahead and feel free to discuss,  but eventually someone comes along that doesnt have their "kid friendly filter on " and really let's folks know what they think about it ....I've heard all the arguments , everyone has

Opinions are elbows ,I have one too....my opinion reaping is dangerous,  there is no way I would cast aside my own safety just to kill a gobbler , if you dont get him.....there is another day, if you still dont get him...oh well

But yes I've seen 100 reaping threads and they end up the same way

Be safe folks

Quote from: Jmbradt3873 on February 26, 2020, 02:04:42 PM
I don't personally do it, but if it is legal then go for it. I don't do it for the same reason that I am extremely selective about using a gobbler decoy(or any decoy for that matter) or a gobble call; I hunt a heavily pressured wma in Florida, and getting shot in the face would really suck.

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Considering some of the folks out there, doing that on public land is getting uncomfortably close to a death wish IMHO.

I am not condoning reaping as a hunting method, but as far as the safety issue goes, here's a question for everybody.  Has anybody anywhere seen a confirmed report of a hunter being shot while reaping? 

Just curious...   Every discussion that takes place here has as the general theme that "it is dangerous". Yet, I have not heard of a single case of someone being shot by another hunter while doing it.  ...And on the other hand, I have heard of many confirmed cases of people being shot while CALLING turkeys. 

Again, I am not condoning the practice, nor do I participate in doing it.  But, quite honestly, I have seen absolutely no proof that it is dangerous,...and I have seen plenty of cases where hunters have been shot while calling.

Why do I bring this up?  For me, personally, I suppose I have more faith in my fellow turkey hunters to positively identify their target as a real, live gobbler when hunting.  Until I see hard evidence to the contrary, I will continue to have that faith.

Well gobblenut, I am hesitant to make this reply, but I will because I think it is relevant. Last time I posted about my accident I got accused of wearing it as a badge of honor.....that still pisses me off and hurts!

Simply put, I was shot because the guy thought he saw part of a turkey. I had called and birds had answered right in front of me. The guy saw movement and convinced himself that some part of my camo pattern looked like the back of a turkey. So yes I was shot because someone did not identify his target and was so anxious to kill one he took a chance before he did. I know it's not reaping, but I think similar. I also know of another case that happened when I worked for the Division of wildlife where a guy was killed by his brother and he mistook his brother for a turkey....really bad case.

Quote from: eggshell on February 28, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
Well gobblenut, I am hesitant to make this reply, but I will because I think it is relevant. Last time I posted about my accident I got accused of wearing it as a badge of honor.....that still pisses me off and hurts!

Simply put, I was shot because the guy thought he saw part of a turkey. I had called and birds had answered right in front of me. The guy saw movement and convinced himself that some part of my camo pattern looked like the back of a turkey. So yes I was shot because someone did not identify his target and was so anxious to kill one he took a chance before he did. I know it's not reaping, but I think similar. I also know of another case that happened when I worked for the Division of wildlife where a guy was killed by his brother and he mistook his brother for a turkey....really bad case.

Your point is well taken, eggshell.  Safety is an issue all the way around.  However, your experience, as well as every single other one I am aware of, was not related to reaping.  It all boils down to target identification in every single case involving mistaken-for-game accidents. 

I can plainly see why you, in particular, have a heightened awareness regarding safety issues, but your experience also reinforces my statement.  That is, reaping has not been demonstrated to be more dangerous than other turkey hunting method, and certainly no more so than plain-old calling.

We rarely see much talk here about the dangers of turkey calling. Yet, pretty much everybody jumps on board when reaping comes up.  I personally just can't jump on that bandwagon without statistical data to back it up,...and again, I am asking for specific instances where accidents have occurred involving reaping. 

Being as I am out here in the west, I may not have heard about such instances.  I am just looking for factual documentation to back up the hype that reaping puts a hunter in a more dangerous situation than does any other form of turkey hunting.  Anybody got any?....

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I am not condoning reaping as a hunting method, but as far as the safety issue goes, here's a question for everybody.  Has anybody anywhere seen a confirmed report of a hunter being shot while reaping? 

Just curious...   Every discussion that takes place here has as the general theme that "it is dangerous". Yet, I have not heard of a single case of someone being shot by another hunter while doing it.  ...And on the other hand, I have heard of many confirmed cases of people being shot while CALLING turkeys. 

Again, I am not condoning the practice, nor do I participate in doing it.  But, quite honestly, I have seen absolutely no proof that it is dangerous,...and I have seen plenty of cases where hunters have been shot while calling.

Why do I bring this up?  For me, personally, I suppose I have more faith in my fellow turkey hunters to positively identify their target as a real, live gobbler when hunting.  Until I see hard evidence to the contrary, I will continue to have that faith.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/04/18/hunter-shoots-two-partners-hiding-behind-turkey-fan/

I agree Gobblenut, I know of no reaping cases personally and agree my case supports your hypothesis. I see sir-diealot found a case.

Quote from: warrent423 on February 28, 2020, 01:24:26 PM
Haven't tripped over a body yet, but I can feel it coming. I hoping when it does, the stupid a$$ will have a fat wallet and a nice gun.

Hopefully it's you that gets tripped over

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 I hope no one ever gets shot .  I pray safety and protection  on all the guys this year.
  I cant imagine mistaking a reaping hunter for a real gobbler . It would just look way way to odd to me. But there are those guys out there that shoot and ask later I guess.

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 12:14:52 PM

Quote from: eggshell on February 28, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
Well gobblenut, I am hesitant to make this reply, but I will because I think it is relevant. Last time I posted about my accident I got accused of wearing it as a badge of honor.....that still pisses me off and hurts!

Simply put, I was shot because the guy thought he saw part of a turkey. I had called and birds had answered right in front of me. The guy saw movement and convinced himself that some part of my camo pattern looked like the back of a turkey. So yes I was shot because someone did not identify his target and was so anxious to kill one he took a chance before he did. I know it's not reaping, but I think similar. I also know of another case that happened when I worked for the Division of wildlife where a guy was killed by his brother and he mistook his brother for a turkey....really bad case.

Your point is well taken, eggshell.  Safety is an issue all the way around.  However, your experience, as well as every single other one I am aware of, was not related to reaping.  It all boils down to target identification in every single case involving mistaken-for-game accidents. 

I can plainly see why you, in particular, have a heightened awareness regarding safety issues, but your experience also reinforces my statement.  That is, reaping has not been demonstrated to be more dangerous than other turkey hunting method, and certainly no more so than plain-old calling.

We rarely see much talk here about the dangers of turkey calling. Yet, pretty much everybody jumps on board when reaping comes up.  I personally just can't jump on that bandwagon without statistical data to back it up,...and again, I am asking for specific instances where accidents have occurred involving reaping. 

Being as I am out here in the west, I may not have heard about such instances.  I am just looking for factual documentation to back up the hype that reaping puts a hunter in a more dangerous situation than does any other form of turkey hunting.  Anybody got any?....

https://community.legendarywhitetails.com/blog/hunter-accidentally-shoots-brother-friend-while-turkey-hunting/

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Even though those two incidents cited are the same one, it does demonstrate that there is a level of danger associated with reaping.  Now, research turkey hunting accidents that were a result of someone getting shot while calling.  I think you will find a few more than one. 

Again, I am not trying to justify reaping or minimize the significance of the danger associated with it.  The point is that calling has been clearly demonstrated to be just as dangerous, if not more-so. 

Let's put the emphasis where it really needs to be.  If and when any of us pulls that trigger, we all need to be COMPLETELY certain that our target is the real deal.  I have said this many times before here:  There is absolutely no excuse for any mistaken-for-game accident!  EVER!

A fake turkey with a hunter behind it looks just like that,...a fake turkey with a hunter behind it!  Let's put the blame right where it belongs in every case,....on the shooter!...and quit making excuses for someone getting shot in any situation!

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 12:14:52 PM

Quote from: eggshell on February 28, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
Well gobblenut, I am hesitant to make this reply, but I will because I think it is relevant. Last time I posted about my accident I got accused of wearing it as a badge of honor.....that still pisses me off and hurts!

Simply put, I was shot because the guy thought he saw part of a turkey. I had called and birds had answered right in front of me. The guy saw movement and convinced himself that some part of my camo pattern looked like the back of a turkey. So yes I was shot because someone did not identify his target and was so anxious to kill one he took a chance before he did. I know it's not reaping, but I think similar. I also know of another case that happened when I worked for the Division of wildlife where a guy was killed by his brother and he mistook his brother for a turkey....really bad case.

Your point is well taken, eggshell.  Safety is an issue all the way around.  However, your experience, as well as every single other one I am aware of, was not related to reaping.  It all boils down to target identification in every single case involving mistaken-for-game accidents. 

I can plainly see why you, in particular, have a heightened awareness regarding safety issues, but your experience also reinforces my statement.  That is, reaping has not been demonstrated to be more dangerous than other turkey hunting method, and certainly no more so than plain-old calling.

We rarely see much talk here about the dangers of turkey calling. Yet, pretty much everybody jumps on board when reaping comes up.  I personally just can't jump on that bandwagon without statistical data to back it up,...and again, I am asking for specific instances where accidents have occurred involving reaping. 

Being as I am out here in the west, I may not have heard about such instances.  I am just looking for factual documentation to back up the hype that reaping puts a hunter in a more dangerous situation than does any other form of turkey hunting.  Anybody got any?....

We have been calling turkeys since the beginning of turkey hunting. Reaping with realistic decoys is a much newer thing which is why I think you're not finding a lot of incidents reported yet. I don't think we can make a fair comparison of reaping accidents verses calling accidents yet.


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A fake turkey with a hunter behind it looks just like that,...a fake turkey with a hunter behind it!  Let's put the blame right where it belongs in every case,....on the shooter!...and quit making excuses for someone getting shot in any situation!
:agreed:

  I have never understood how anyone ,,deer or turkey hunter can be mistaken . 
  case In point.
  I was working a gobbler a few years back.. I was in some very thick rugged mountain country in north ga.
  Gobbler was responding and working my way. This was going on an hour or so and he went quiet.
  Suddenly i hear some leaves rusting and got my gun swung in that direction.
  A figure pops up over the ridge 20 yards away .  Now my mind said . This is that gobbler . BUT .. I did not shoot .
  Why ?  I didnt have my target identified and of course wanted a clean head shot.
  But this wasnt a gobbler . This was guy who was working toward my Tom.
  He best count his blessings . I could have been an over zealous hunter and he could have been dead.
  Even at 20 yards he didnt see me. I had to wave at him to get his attention. Scared the sheets out of him.

I did it once to see how it is and killed a big stubborn pasture bird...honestly, won't ever do it again...really just was a whole lot easier and took way less skill than calling one in...these guys on YouTube that only can kill em with a fan yet think they are Gods gift to turkey hunting really rub me wrong...prolly wear a flat bill as well with a salt life sticker on their lifted truck lol

Quote from: Bamaslayer757 on March 03, 2020, 11:00:57 PM
.these guys on YouTube that only can kill em with a fan yet think they are Gods gift to turkey hunting really rub me wrong...prolly wear a flat bill as well with a salt life sticker on their lifted truck lol

Funny but it's true. I've never seen so many clones in my life. Hundreds of them dressing the same, same truck it's really like a cult but not in a good way. A guy on another forum said the same thing but also pointed out for some reason there all about 5'- 6" lol not sure if it's inbreeding or what.

Quote from: LaLongbeard on March 03, 2020, 11:35:08 PM

Quote from: Bamaslayer757 on March 03, 2020, 11:00:57 PM
.these guys on YouTube that only can kill em with a fan yet think they are Gods gift to turkey hunting really rub me wrong...prolly wear a flat bill as well with a salt life sticker on their lifted truck lol

Funny but it's true. I've never seen so many clones in my life. Hundreds of them dressing the same, same truck it's really like a cult but not in a good way. A guy on another forum said the same thing but also pointed out for some reason there all about 5'- 6" lol not sure if it's inbreeding or what.

same guys that only care about "limiting out" when duck hunting. shoot 2 boxes of shells to kill 6/ wound 20.

have this distorted view of hunting where everything is a competition. have no perspective about enjoying being out in nature and our role in it.  will wail on their calls or shoot into the air just to spook birds working another guys spread. thankfully many of them spend thousands of dollars, kill some animals, feel their pathetic ego grow and hopefully give up the sport after a few years

I think taking one with a reaper would be a neat experience. It's not how I want to regularly go about hunting though. One thing I have had against it, is the ability to legally reap on public land. I don't even bring hen decoys for fears of being shot in the face by some crack head, let alone sitting behind a gobbler decoy. SC finally made it illegal to reap on public land this year. Thankfully it didn't take someone never returning home from the turkey woods to pass it.

Quote from: aclawrence on February 26, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
I'm sure the Indians were doing some style of reaping. If they didn't kill something they didn't eat. It feels like more of an outdoor channel tv show kind of thing now. Like I said before if it's legal then have fun. It's not for me. I also don't like the safety aspects.  Whatever gets you excited about turkey hunting is a good thing up until it's effectiveness starts to influence the amount of tags that are allowed. If something new directly leads to me be allowed to kill fewer turkeys then I would be disappointed about that. Not saying that will happen with reaping though.


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Can't use sustenance hunting and compare that to sport hunting

I'm against it. It is making something that is a challenge to be easy, turkey hunting is not to be that way. If you want to bag some meat go deer hunting. Period. It is also commercialization of something that was noble. Not to mention the safety factor. I think anyone that wants to do it really needs to rethink. ( he , the gobbler I mean , will come to your calls you have to give him time. HOW MMANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD THAT,        I'm OUT

The dumbing down of the sport. It started when they started allowing decoys. Any type of visual aid is cheating. This reaping just takes it to another level.

To hell with the challenge, it's all about the kill to this new breed of "hunter".  Got a bunch of turkey killers but few turkey hunters out there now.

I personally think its an incredibly dumb and unsafe way to hunt.

What about the guy stalking your calling in the woods?

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Quote from: fallhnt on April 07, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
What about the guy stalking your calling in the woods?

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There is always going to be some level of risk turkey hunting, whether it's being bit by a cottonmouth, breaking an ankle in the woods, or being stalked by another hunter. I'm somewhat cynical and I don't trust the intelligence of the average public land hunter (or human being for that matter). This is why I don't use ANY decoys on public land. If you get a moron that sees your hen decoy, there's no guarantee he won't shoot through your hen decoy into your face. It's just not worth the risk to me. The same goes for gobble calls. I hardly ever use a gobble call just for the reason of having another hunter creep up on me. From my experience, the average weekend warrior will not attempt to sneak up on a hen as much as they will a gobbler. That being said, im all for limited govt intrusion, and I believe that if you want to risk using a stationary decoy on public land and risk another hunter walking up on you, that's your business. Standing BEHIND a gobbler decoy and moving around behind it is begging for a fatal accident, however. It's a fine line between protecting all of our safety and infringing upon our constitutional rights. If people weren't stupid, the idea of banning reaping wouldn't even be a discussion.

Almost 40 years ago I learned how dangerous turkey hunting can be.  Hunting on a large tract of family owned property I had a bird gobble about 120 yards in front of me.  I located a large tree and as I preparing to sit ,  there was a gunshot behind me and I felt stinging on the back of my arm. Luckily my heavy barn coat and the tree trunk stopped the  pellets, I was left with 6 welts from the pellets.

The shooter later stated  he thought that I was a turkey.  Being 6'6" and 255# it is hard to believe that I resembled a bird.

Do as you may within the law,  but crawling behind a gobbler decoy seems like you are putting youself at high risk  for a accident.

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I am not condoning reaping as a hunting method, but as far as the safety issue goes, here's a question for everybody.  Has anybody anywhere seen a confirmed report of a hunter being shot while reaping? 

Just curious...   Every discussion that takes place here has as the general theme that "it is dangerous". Yet, I have not heard of a single case of someone being shot by another hunter while doing it.  ...And on the other hand, I have heard of many confirmed cases of people being shot while CALLING turkeys. 

Again, I am not condoning the practice, nor do I participate in doing it.  But, quite honestly, I have seen absolutely no proof that it is dangerous,...and I have seen plenty of cases where hunters have been shot while calling.

Why do I bring this up?  For me, personally, I suppose I have more faith in my fellow turkey hunters to positively identify their target as a real, live gobbler when hunting.  Until I see hard evidence to the contrary, I will continue to have that faith.

I fear you might be inserting your own intellect into other hunters.  Most of us would see the person behind the decoy pushing it, and hopefully pass on "the shot."

However, all too often hunters minds turn things into what they want them to be, or in other cases ignore obvious safety concerns.  I myself heard a noise to my left on my last hunt, and my brain turned a burnt tree stump into a bird.  I sat frozen for several minutes trying to decide on how to set up my shot without scaring it, and how call the stump into range without spooking it.  Unfortunately I was not able to call it in, but then again, I did not scare it off either.

Intuitively, hiding behind a turkey decoy and crawling through the woods towards turkey sounds, with turkey hunters in said woods, would be more dangerous than simply sitting by a tree making "hen" turkey sounds.  I think there is still a low percentage of hunters that hunt this way, and it has not been popular all that long.

If my spouse suggested such hunting to me, I would immediately check the status of our life insurance policy.

Quote from: Marc on April 08, 2020, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I am not condoning reaping as a hunting method, but as far as the safety issue goes, here's a question for everybody.  Has anybody anywhere seen a confirmed report of a hunter being shot while reaping? 

Just curious...   Every discussion that takes place here has as the general theme that "it is dangerous". Yet, I have not heard of a single case of someone being shot by another hunter while doing it.  ...And on the other hand, I have heard of many confirmed cases of people being shot while CALLING turkeys. 

Again, I am not condoning the practice, nor do I participate in doing it.  But, quite honestly, I have seen absolutely no proof that it is dangerous,...and I have seen plenty of cases where hunters have been shot while calling.

Why do I bring this up?  For me, personally, I suppose I have more faith in my fellow turkey hunters to positively identify their target as a real, live gobbler when hunting.  Until I see hard evidence to the contrary, I will continue to have that faith.

I fear you might be inserting your own intellect into other hunters.  Most of us would see the person behind the decoy pushing it, and hopefully pass on "the shot."

However, all too often hunters minds turn things into what they want them to be, or in other cases ignore obvious safety concerns.  I myself heard a noise to my left on my last hunt, and my brain turned a burnt tree stump into a bird.  I sat frozen for several minutes trying to decide on how to set up my shot without scaring it, and how call the stump into range without spooking it.  Unfortunately I was not able to call it in, but then again, I did not scare it off either.

Intuitively, hiding behind a turkey decoy and crawling through the woods towards turkey sounds, with turkey hunters in said woods, would be more dangerous than simply sitting by a tree making "hen" turkey sounds.  I think there is still a low percentage of hunters that hunt this way, and it has not been popular all that long.

If my spouse suggested such hunting to me, I would immediately check the status of our life insurance policy.

:)  :)  ...A few more comments on this just to pass the current home-bound time....
I forget the technical name for that phenomenon where people's brains interpret what their eyes see differently than the reality.  Fortunately, I think it is a relatively rare occurrence, but it is also something that can occur under any set of circumstances.  It is just as likely to occur with someone sitting and calling as it is with someone reaping.  Yes, intuitively one would think that phenomenon would be more likely to occur in a reaping situation.  Again, however, I don't believe that statistically, that can be demonstrated by the current available data on hunting accidents. 

I would suggest a reason for that.  Could it be that people that reap are generally doing so in more open areas where visibility is generally much greater?  The practice seems to be much more common in large, open areas than in denser cover. 

Yes, reaping, as a common practice, has not been around very long.  And no, I am not trying to defend it or encourage hunters to take it up.  I am, however, a "show me the money" sort of guy.  I don't like hyperbole without facts to back it up,....and lord knows, we got way too much of that going on in the world.

Maybe, in the near future, the statistical data will start piling up that shows reaping is really dangerous and should be outlawed.  Until that time, I am not willing to jump on that particular bandwagon. 

Quote from: GobbleNut on April 08, 2020, 11:24:26 PM

Quote from: Marc on April 08, 2020, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I am not condoning reaping as a hunting method, but as far as the safety issue goes, here's a question for everybody.  Has anybody anywhere seen a confirmed report of a hunter being shot while reaping? 

Just curious...   Every discussion that takes place here has as the general theme that "it is dangerous". Yet, I have not heard of a single case of someone being shot by another hunter while doing it.  ...And on the other hand, I have heard of many confirmed cases of people being shot while CALLING turkeys. 

Again, I am not condoning the practice, nor do I participate in doing it.  But, quite honestly, I have seen absolutely no proof that it is dangerous,...and I have seen plenty of cases where hunters have been shot while calling.

Why do I bring this up?  For me, personally, I suppose I have more faith in my fellow turkey hunters to positively identify their target as a real, live gobbler when hunting.  Until I see hard evidence to the contrary, I will continue to have that faith.

I fear you might be inserting your own intellect into other hunters.  Most of us would see the person behind the decoy pushing it, and hopefully pass on "the shot."

However, all too often hunters minds turn things into what they want them to be, or in other cases ignore obvious safety concerns.  I myself heard a noise to my left on my last hunt, and my brain turned a burnt tree stump into a bird.  I sat frozen for several minutes trying to decide on how to set up my shot without scaring it, and how call the stump into range without spooking it.  Unfortunately I was not able to call it in, but then again, I did not scare it off either.

Intuitively, hiding behind a turkey decoy and crawling through the woods towards turkey sounds, with turkey hunters in said woods, would be more dangerous than simply sitting by a tree making "hen" turkey sounds.  I think there is still a low percentage of hunters that hunt this way, and it has not been popular all that long.

If my spouse suggested such hunting to me, I would immediately check the status of our life insurance policy.

:)  :)  ...A few more comments on this just to pass the current home-bound time....
I forget the technical name for that phenomenon where people's brains interpret what their eyes see differently than the reality.  Fortunately, I think it is a relatively rare occurrence, but it is also something that can occur under any set of circumstances.  It is just as likely to occur with someone sitting and calling as it is with someone reaping.  Yes, intuitively one would think that phenomenon would be more likely to occur in a reaping situation.  Again, however, I don't believe that statistically, that can be demonstrated by the current available data on hunting accidents. 

I would suggest a reason for that.  Could it be that people that reap are generally doing so in more open areas where visibility is generally much greater?  The practice seems to be much more common in large, open areas than in denser cover. 

Yes, reaping, as a common practice, has not been around very long.  And no, I am not trying to defend it or encourage hunters to take it up.  I am, however, a "show me the money" sort of guy.  I don't like hyperbole without facts to back it up,....and lord knows, we got way too much of that going on in the world.

Maybe, in the near future, the statistical data will start piling up that shows reaping is really dangerous and should be outlawed.  Until that time, I am not willing to jump on that particular bandwagon.

I know of people reaping in the woods...  I hunt a decent sized piece of property with one other hunter, and that is how he killed a bird last year (actually a nice guy, more interested in putting meat on the table than "hunting").  Stated he was able to walk right up to the bird and kill it.  (He also stated that if he knew I was hunting he would not attempt this method).


And seeing what we want is called motivated perception...  I believe the scientific term is Pareidolia.  It is actually extremely common, and I even see it with my dogs while hunting.  They will whip their heads around to see a knat or flying but that looks like an incoming dove (which happens to me all the time as well).  We very often see what we are expecting, and hoping to see, and obviously this "phenomenon" happens to varying degrees with different people...  Probably less so with experienced hunters, than with new "overly zealous" hunters.

Even ranging a bird...  First time I saw turkeys at 80 yards, they sure seemed close enough to shoot (especially compared to the smaller game I was accustomed to hunting).  Luckily, I was experienced in bird hunting and using other indicators for range.  And...  After having birds come into good range, it is far more easy to discern what is too far, and what is not.  Interestingly, the more I have hunted (and pulled birds in really close), the more I tend to over-estimate range.

But, you are correct, not many injuries or fatalities have been reported.  Not sure whether I consider it fair chase or not (any more than shooting a bird off a limb while roosting), and I do think that there is the potential for tragedy.    Not sure I want it regulated though???  I have never felt that our government can regulate out stupidity, and not sure I want the government controlling the minutia of my life.  But, I do not like the idea of reaping as far as the ethics or the safety profile.

Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 01, 2020, 06:58:22 AM
The dumbing down of the sport. It started when they started allowing decoys. Any type of visual aid is cheating. This reaping just takes it to another level.

To hell with the challenge, it's all about the kill to this new breed of "hunter".  Got a bunch of turkey killers but few turkey hunters out there now.

If I could choose a hunting confidant, most of mine are dead, I would choose you.

I view the tactic strictly as  a safety issue. Years ago when I was in a "Shoot Don"t Shoot" Training the instructor said when a person gets in a stress situation they get tunnel vision, although it could be argued this is not to the same level there is a certain stress level involved in hunting. What Marc mentioned (Pareidolia) is the human ability to see shapes or faces in other objects such as a cloud, rock formation or a stump with white mold that looked like a turkey. The other factor that has not been mentioned is there are two parties involved in an accidental shooting, the victim and the perpetrator, the latter having to live the rest of his or her life knowing due to a careless moment they killed or maimed another person. The comparison has been suggested that the number of accidental is significantly less in reaping that in called but the number involved in the two activities is also significantly different, everyone turkey hunting uses a call to a certain degree whereas not many use the reaping method.   

Quote from: fallhnt on April 07, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
What about the guy stalking your calling in the woods?

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This is more dangerous

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Quote from: fallhnt on April 14, 2020, 08:34:08 AM

Quote from: fallhnt on April 07, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
What about the guy stalking your calling in the woods?

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This is more dangerous

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Yeah I can assure you the stalker is way more dangerous

Never tryed it since I hunt public land only may not be a good idea

I'm far from an expereinced hunter, but I do enjoy turkey hunting.  I have a lot of private land I hunt in Virginia and North Carolina that's on different tracts within about a 20 mile radius.  I'm very fortunate.  I'm also fortunate to live in an area where ther are a lot of turkeys.  It's a target rich environment to say the least.  I don't like folks judging how others take their game.  Some folks like a challenge and you can hunt with a slingshot and some old-style call and that's great.  It doesn't impress me.  I had an old-timer talk a lot of crap about using decoys to kill turkeys because that's not how he used to hunt them.  Thought it was cheating, and I'm sure many of you see it that way.  That's fine too.  You're entitiled to your opinion and that's about it.  Most of the time our opinions are worth only one or two things: 1) making yourself feel superior; 2) trying to belittle someone else for doing something differently than you do it.  I learn a lot from the old-timer and we're friends.  I've learned more from him and another long-time turkey hunter than I've learned from anyone or anywhere else.  The old-timer is coming around to decoys, mainly because the turkeys have changed habits and he feels it may be necessary to give them something to see.  And he doesn't always kill a turkey when he's using them, neither do I.  If decoys had been around when he started turkey hunting maybe he'd have started using them when he was younger, I don't know. I know that folks use the equipment that is popular when they get into something like turkey hunting, especially if they feel it improves their success.

So as far as reaping goes I could care less if people do it.  I have a buddy that loves it and says it's a big rush.  He kills his limit and stops just like most people I know do.  I don't like it because I simply don't want to do it.  I don't like the idea of trying to crawl through a field or anywhere with a decoy in one hand and a gun in the other.  I also don't like the decision to drop the decoy and shoot, because I think I'll get all messed up and miss the turkey or have the gun go off unintentionally.  I don't need that type of stress when I'm hunting.  I like taking my time and completing the mission.

Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on April 17, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
I'm far from an expereinced hunter, but I do enjoy turkey hunting.  I have a lot of private land I hunt in Virginia and North Carolina that's on different tracts within about a 20 mile radius.  I'm very fortunate.  I'm also fortunate to live in an area where ther are a lot of turkeys.  It's a target rich environment to say the least.  I don't like folks judging how others take their game.  Some folks like a challenge and you can hunt with a slingshot and some old-style call and that's great.  It doesn't impress me.  I had an old-timer talk a lot of crap about using decoys to kill turkeys because that's not how he used to hunt them.  Thought it was cheating, and I'm sure many of you see it that way.  That's fine too.  You're entitiled to your opinion and that's about it.  Most of the time our opinions are worth only one or two things: 1) making yourself feel superior; 2) trying to belittle someone else for doing something differently than you do it.  I learn a lot from the old-timer and we're friends.  I've learned more from him and another long-time turkey hunter than I've learned from anyone or anywhere else.  The old-timer is coming around to decoys, mainly because the turkeys have changed habits and he feels it may be necessary to give them something to see.  And he doesn't always kill a turkey when he's using them, neither do I.  If decoys had been around when he started turkey hunting maybe he'd have started using them when he was younger, I don't know. I know that folks use the equipment that is popular when they get into something like turkey hunting, especially if they feel it improves their success.

So as far as reaping goes I could care less if people do it.  I have a buddy that loves it and says it's a big rush.  He kills his limit and stops just like most people I know do.  I don't like it because I simply don't want to do it.  I don't like the idea of trying to crawl through a field or anywhere with a decoy in one hand and a gun in the other.  I also don't like the decision to drop the decoy and shoot, because I think I'll get all messed up and miss the turkey or have the gun go off unintentionally.  I don't need that type of stress when I'm hunting.  I like taking my time and completing the mission.

Great post, Mg!  Well stated and right on!

Not for me,but I'm not judging anyone if it's legal. I just enjoy the calling in and killing aspect more. I'm also kinda fat and getting old. Crawling around doesnt sound fun to me.

Not for me- I hunt mostly public land and consider it a safety issue.  I don't use decoys on public land either.
HYOH- hunt your own hunt though. Not for me to say what others should do. 

It ain't for me.

Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on April 17, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
The old-timer is coming around to decoys, mainly because the turkeys have changed habits and he feels it may be necessary to give them something to see.

The turkeys haven't changed their habits.  They have been sprinting to hens and gobblers in open fields since the introduction of the axe.  I don't know what to call it, but other than a crutch, it is not Turkey hunting, it is merely Turkey killing, and is a tactic suitable for Ned in the first reader.

They made it illegal here in SC on public, and the full strut decoys as well.

Quote from: DP42912 on May 10, 2020, 08:42:02 PM
They made it illegal here in SC on public, and the full strut decoys as well.

If they made it illegal (which I have no problem with), it should be illegal across-the-board.  It irks the crap out of me when private property owners are given special privileges in the use of a publicly-owned resource (wild turkeys/wildlife).  ...Arghhhh!

As I've stated I have genuine concern as to how safe it is, but is true that if it's legal it's your choice. It's also your choice to jump off a cliff, poop your pants or slap a bear, but common sense says none of those things will work out well for your health or comfort. This JIm Croce song has some good philosophy to it that should be applied to reaping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQrTGE4wwwA

So, as I see it, if you choose to do it apply at least a little common sense in where, when and how you do it. I will pass myself. As for decoys, I mostly object because I'm too darn lazy to carry them.

Quote from: eggshell on May 11, 2020, 04:04:05 PM
As I've stated I have genuine concern as to how safe it is, but is true that if it's legal it's your choice. It's also your choice to jump off a cliff, poop your pants or slap a bear, but common sense says none of those things will work out well for your health or comfort.

Chances are better than average if you slap a bear your also going to poop your pants before to long.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Except bears, Bears will kill you!!

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The danger probably lies within where you do it. In a field surrounded by your own land...probably not dangerous because you won't run into unaware hunters. Public Land? Pretty darn stupid. Woods? Pretty darn risky.

Sure, the hunter shooting a reaper is probably the bigger idiot, but that sure isn't a consolation prize when you get shot. When on public and I think I might run into someone else I won't even use a hen decoy because people are that dumb.

Quote from: silvestris on May 10, 2020, 02:54:14 PM
The turkeys haven't changed their habits.  They have been sprinting to hens and gobblers in open fields since the introduction of the axe.  I don't know what to call it, but other than a crutch, it is not Turkey hunting, it is merely Turkey killing, and is a tactic suitable for Ned in the first reader.

This is a perfect example of an opinion and nothing else.  We all should know by now that people's opinions are hard to change. 

Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 26, 2020, 11:49:53 AM
This is my thoughts I was posting on a thread that just disappeared...

I would like to see it stop. A couple people that I know that do it also to things against the law, like taking more than the legal limit, trespassing... I'm not saying all people that reap turkeys are like that but I'm afraid too many are. It already helps people limit out more than they would by just decoys setup and calling. At a time when turkey numbers and decline are on everyone's mind, I think it might be time for us to consider if it should be allowed. I know it's tricky, because it's really just a decoy you use in front of yourself...
I'm not saying everyone that does it is a bad person. I'm also sure that it's probably fun. It's not the way I want to kill them though. I don't think it's overall good for turkeys.
In the future we are going to have to make decisions, for turkeys and not for ourselves. I personally have not hunted areas with major declines but it concerns me that people are. Habitat improvements, season date changes and reduced bag limits, are things that may need to be addressed. We also may need to look at our hunting practices.

You basically just profiled and sterotyped everyone that participates in "reaping" as a criminal based on your own anecdotal evidence.  Then you go on to say its not for you, fair enough. Wasn't to long ago decoys were not authorized and many considered calling to be cheating. Pretty soon the amount of hunters will dwindle to nothing, license sales will plummet, gear purchases will drastically decrease and all that revenue will not go back to; what sounds like YOUR turkeys. How about states that allow the use of rifles for turkeys? Or baiting for turkeys? Or all day hunting? Or roost shooting? No, the fan in the face and belly crawl you draw the line at? In the words of Phil Anselmo, "Be yourself, by yourself."

Quote from: bonasa on May 15, 2020, 05:22:37 PM
Wasn't to long ago decoys were not authorized and many considered calling to be cheating.

"Many considered calling to be cheating"?  I think cheating applies to decoys, but calling?  Charles Jordan spent a lot of time and thought in learning to communicate with turkeys.  Ned in the first reader can buy a decoy and sit on a field frequented by turkeys and eventually buy a turkey.  My vote goes to Jordan.  He earned his turkey.

I wonder how many of those who are against decoys or fanning will sit over a pile of corn to shoot a deer?

Quote from: AndyN on May 18, 2020, 05:05:38 PM
I wonder how many of those who are against decoys or fanning will sit over a pile of corn to shoot a deer?

I wonder how many say that reaping isn't anymore dangerous than calling would be willing to wear a deer hide and antlers and try to stalk a deer on public land???

Idiots with guns are a big problem. This happened on a deer drive.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/3e79ac76df9966441d7f147e8b2ca39a.jpg)

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Quote from: bonasa on May 15, 2020, 05:22:37 PM

You basically just profiled and sterotyped everyone that participates in "reaping" as a criminal based on your own anecdotal evidence.  Then you go on to say its not for you, fair enough. Wasn't to long ago decoys were not authorized and many considered calling to be cheating. Pretty soon the amount of hunters will dwindle to nothing, license sales will plummet, gear purchases will drastically decrease and all that revenue will not go back to; what sounds like YOUR turkeys. How about states that allow the use of rifles for turkeys? Or baiting for turkeys? Or all day hunting? Or roost shooting? No, the fan in the face and belly crawl you draw the line at? In the words of Phil Anselmo, "Be yourself, by yourself."

I get what you are saying, and to some degree, I do agree with you.

We all hunt under a variety of conditions, with varying levels of access to turkeys and turkey hunting, with varying degrees of turkey populations...  Someone that sees or hears turkeys every hunt.  For some of us, calling a bird into range is the toughest part, for some of us, simply running across any bird is very challenging.

But as a hunting community, I believe that first and foremost, hunters should be the biggest stewards of the sport.  There are certain practices that all ethical hunters should oppose:

  *Shooting birds out of a tree while roosting.
  *Using electronic calling devices (or E-callers).
  *Using decoys with E-calling capabilities.

Other things that should be considered that I would at this time oppose:

  *Motion decoys, or especially motion decoys with E-calling capabilities.
  *Long-range rifles for turkey hunting
  *Reaping.

Just for fun, I did try and see how close I could get to birds using reaping techniques on some private property...  I was distressed to find how easy it was to basically just walk right up on those birds behind a tail-fan and decoy....

I agree with pretty much everything you state here, Marc. 

The one modification I would make is regarding reaping.  If reaping was to be outlawed (which I would have no objection to), I would more specifically outlaw using any kind of turkey decoy or visual aid that imitates a strutting gobbler in any form. 

What tickles me is the fact that folks get sooo but hurt over others opinion and views .
I thought that was what this forums was about ?  Views and opinions.
   IMO reaping or any type of decoying a gobbler is a weak way to take one .
The op asked , what's your opinion on reaping ??? Well , that's my opinion.
Don't get all but hurt just because I hunt them the "right " way ????

Man we need a Butt Hurt emoji.....   :fud:( l )

Quote from: eggshell on May 29, 2020, 12:05:57 PM
Man we need a Butt Hurt emoji.....   :fud:( l )

:)  I suspect anything that conveyed that message adequately would be censored pretty quickly.

To much estrogen laced soy is being consumed these days. That's my theory anyways

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Quote from: Happy on May 30, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
To much estrogen laced soy is being consumed these days. That's my theory anyways

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Finally it all comes out, it just part of the great government and corporate conspiracy....you the man ( or wo-man) happy

Quote from: eggshell on May 30, 2020, 10:12:59 AM

Quote from: Happy on May 30, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
To much estrogen laced soy is being consumed these days. That's my theory anyways

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Finally it all comes out, it just part of the great government and corporate conspiracy....you the man ( or wo-man) happy

Depends on which of the 72 genders I decide to be that morning.

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Quote from: GobbleNut on May 29, 2020, 01:02:29 PM

Quote from: eggshell on May 29, 2020, 12:05:57 PM
Man we need a Butt Hurt emoji.....   :fud:( l )

:)  I suspect anything that conveyed that message adequately would be censored pretty quickly.

Or take these forums in a completely different direction...

Here's my opinion.  Some will agree, most probably won't.  And that's ok.

First of all, I HATE the word Reaping.  It just sounds dirty.  Sounds like a fad word too and I don't like fad words (Thunder Chicken, etc.)

Someone mentioned Reaping as "dumbing down".  I think that's the perfect description.  It's kind of like shooting these long range shells.  I'm not against shooting TSS, etc. for an improved pattern.  I don't care for the fact that folks use them to routinely shoot 60-70 yards at a turkey.  Once again, it becomes a crutch.

I don't buy into the "if it's legal, then it's ok."  Should it be accepted to use a remote control decoy to roll out into a field and drag a Gobbler to you?  It's legal in some states.  Deep in your heart as a turkey hunter, do you think that is honestly ok to do?  Just because it's legal.  Not always the best argument for something. That's a different subject though.

Agree or disagree, but this is a FACT whether you support it or not.  Reaping takes zero skill to kill a turkey.  You could hand one a reaping decoy to a dude off a street corner in NYC that's never been off the pavement, never seen a turkey in the wild, and he could have one in his lap in no time.   Sure it doesn't work every single time, but it takes no skill.  It takes nothing put in, nothing earned.  I'm not saying he couldn't choke on a call, sound more like a dying cat, and call one in.... it happens.  But, it's not sustainable.  I don't know how many times I've heard, "He wouldn't come to a call, so I reaped him.   He came running".  Or "he wouldn't come closer, so I shot him at 75 yards".  It just rubs me the wrong way.  I don't want to sound cheesy, but from a personal standpoint, I find it disrespectful.  Dead is dead, I get it.  It's like being told you are being fed fried bologna, but you get served Spam... it just doesn't sit right.   

I always hear this argument for hunter recruitment and that such views suppress hunter numbers.  I don't buy that.  Sometimes truths needs to be told and folks need to realize that participation trophies past the age of 7 or 8 benefits no one long term.  I can't speak for other regions, but in the south, hunter numbers cannot possibly be declining.  Maybe they aren't buying licenses, but they are hunting. 

I guess you aren't cool these days if you don't have a walk out video on social media with a dead turkey over your shoulder.  Chest poking out swagger.  Usually with some tunes.  All in good fun I know.  I know.

Anyway, so now I've posted my true thoughts on it, which I doubt no one really cares.  And I have probably gained no friends from being honest.  It's just an opinion and as someone else said, when understood as such it shouldn't make any one mad.  A couple of us have stated what many think, but won't post.   Hey, I may be totally wrong in my way of thinking.   

Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 12, 2020, 06:48:04 AM

Quote from: silvestris on May 10, 2020, 02:54:14 PM
The turkeys haven't changed their habits.  They have been sprinting to hens and gobblers in open fields since the introduction of the axe.  I don't know what to call it, but other than a crutch, it is not Turkey hunting, it is merely Turkey killing, and is a tactic suitable for Ned in the first reader.

This is a perfect example of an opinion and nothing else.  We all should know by now that people's opinions are hard to change.

Opinion?

So I can take any 9 year old that has enough coordination to hold a fan in one hand and a .410 in the other give him 2 min of verbal instruction and let him out across a field from a strutter and unless he drops the gun he's gonna get a shot. That's not an opinion that's a fact.
   Can I now take this same 9 year old give him a box call and his .410 and drop him off in the National Forest here in La and expect him to have any chance at all of killing a Gobbler? I've never yet met one of the fanners/reapers or anyone that promotes it or agrees with it that was even a decent turkey hunter. From what I've seen it takes a certain level of incompetence and desperation to even consider such tactics.

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on May 31, 2020, 02:53:18 AM
First of all, I HATE the word Reaping.  It just sounds dirty.  Sounds like a fad word too and I don't like fad words (Thunder Chicken, etc.)

Totally agree with that EPG. 

Although we have beat this horse to death multiple times, there is nothing wrong with folks respectfully stating their opinions about it and sharing their thoughts on why they feel the way they do. 

I agree a lot with some of the opinions you state in your thoughtful post.  I just am not quite so adamant about it as you and a lot of others here are.  For one, I recognize that most all of us hunt under different sets of conditions and with different personal constraints and obligations.  I wish everybody had the time and desire to hunt turkeys the way I do.  I also wish everybody had the opportunity to hunt a place where having a gobbler come to a call gobbling and strutting on a somewhat regular basis would allow them to fully understand why some of us frown on the use of tactics like reaping (there are some other tactics folks use that seem to be more acceptable that I personally disdain,...but I choose to keep my mouth shut about them). 

When all is said and done, for me it is all about personal attitudes. It's about being aware of how your hunting method (whatever it might be) and how you apply it impacts on the resource.  Ask yourself this,...in an area with a "marginal" turkey population, is the guy that only has a weekend to hunt and reaps a bird or two a worse representative of the turkey hunting community than the guy that gets to hunt the entire season and kills four or five gobblers by calling?  ..Or worse yet, kills his four or five gobblers and then takes other hunters out to kill four or five more only to prove just how good a turkey caller/hunter he is?

You may have a firm opinion about that question based on the method of harvest,...but to me, it is very debatable.  Personally, I say kill turkeys the way you want to,...but always do so with a full awareness and understanding of just how your hunting method impacts the turkey population where you hunt,....and adjust your attitude accordingly.

Reaping 2020

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Quote from: El Pavo Grande on May 31, 2020, 02:53:18 AM
Here's my opinion.  Some will agree, most probably won't.  And that's ok.

First of all, I HATE the word Reaping.  It just sounds dirty.  Sounds like a fad word too and I don't like fad words (Thunder Chicken, etc.)

Someone mentioned Reaping as "dumbing down".  I think that's the perfect description.  It's kind of like shooting these long range shells.  I'm not against shooting TSS, etc. for an improved pattern.  I don't care for the fact that folks use them to routinely shoot 60-70 yards at a turkey.  Once again, it becomes a crutch.

I don't buy into the "if it's legal, then it's ok."  Should it be accepted to use a remote control decoy to roll out into a field and drag a Gobbler to you?  It's legal in some states.  Deep in your heart as a turkey hunter, do you think that is honestly ok to do?  Just because it's legal.  Not always the best argument for something. That's a different subject though.

Agree or disagree, but this is a FACT whether you support it or not.  Reaping takes zero skill to kill a turkey.  You could hand one a reaping decoy to a dude off a street corner in NYC that's never been off the pavement, never seen a turkey in the wild, and he could have one in his lap in no time.   Sure it doesn't work every single time, but it takes no skill.  It takes nothing put in, nothing earned.  I'm not saying he couldn't choke on a call, sound more like a dying cat, and call one in.... it happens.  But, it's not sustainable.  I don't know how many times I've heard, "He wouldn't come to a call, so I reaped him.   He came running".  Or "he wouldn't come closer, so I shot him at 75 yards".  It just rubs me the wrong way.  I don't want to sound cheesy, but from a personal standpoint, I find it disrespectful.  Dead is dead, I get it.  It's like being told you are being fed fried bologna, but you get served Spam... it just doesn't sit right.   

I always hear this argument for hunter recruitment and that such views suppress hunter numbers.  I don't buy that.  Sometimes truths needs to be told and folks need to realize that participation trophies past the age of 7 or 8 benefits no one long term.  I can't speak for other regions, but in the south, hunter numbers cannot possibly be declining.  Maybe they aren't buying licenses, but they are hunting. 

I guess you aren't cool these days if you don't have a walk out video on social media with a dead turkey over your shoulder.  Chest poking out swagger.  Usually with some tunes.  All in good fun I know.  I know.

Anyway, so now I've posted my true thoughts on it, which I doubt no one really cares.  And I have probably gained no friends from being honest.  It's just an opinion and as someone else said, when understood as such it shouldn't make any one mad.  A couple of us have stated what many think, but won't post.   Hey, I may be totally wrong in my way of thinking.

I agree 100% on this. People tend to get upset when you call it what it is though. I however can ignore most people's behavior. The only things I will quickly speak out against is illegal behavior and the wasting of meat. Both of those things royally tick me off.

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You already know I am against reaping, but the last few post make some good points as well. I agree Gobblenut, I don't recruit people to take out and call for or assist. If someone calls and ask me for help I will do it if I trust them as ethical hunters. I know guys who just want to brag on how many kills they were responsible for. This year I tagged out on day 5 of our month long season. I hunted 5 other days and three of those were the last 6 days of season to try and help friends tag a bird. They called and asked, it was because I could take them to new ground. I had one guy call and ask if I could tell him someone to take so he could call in more birds, I told him no.

I used to do the call as many as I could thing, but I quit that many years ago.

I'm like those teenage girls, I just want to have fun. After I tag out I sit on my deck and listen to birds gobble every morning or I go out to the farm and just sit and watch birds. If I don't want to do that I go fishing.

Hmmm


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Many of us hunt differently than others. Some reap, some use blinds, some use decoys, some call, some bushwhack, some use rifles (certain states) etc. All legal in your locale. What it really boils down to is your personal satisfaction with the hunt. Personally, I turkey hunt for the fun of it, not the meat...although we certainly enjoy it, not the bragging rights or to see how quickly I can get it on Facebook or YouTube or any social media platform...just the fun of calling in a good bird on my terms. Re: social media I've often wondered how many of those guys would even turkey hunt if they couldn't post and brag on it. These days...at my age...when I kill a good bird I always say "Lord, thank You for this opportunity to do what I do." ...and I'm not really a religious person. Quite frankly, I doubt if He cares whether I kill a turkey or it gets away!!

Quote from: Turkeyman on June 04, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
Many of us hunt differently than others. Some reap, some use blinds, some use decoys, some call, some bushwhack, some use rifles (certain states) etc. All legal in your locale. What it really boils down to is your personal satisfaction with the hunt. Personally, I turkey hunt for the fun of it, not the meat...although we certainly enjoy it, not the bragging rights or to see how quickly I can get it on Facebook or YouTube or any social media platform...just the fun of calling in a good bird on my terms. Re: social media I've often wondered how many of those guys would even turkey hunt if they couldn't post and brag on it. These days...at my age...when I kill a good bird I always say "Lord, thank You for this opportunity to do what I do." ...and I'm not really a religious person. Quite frankly, I doubt if He cares whether I kill a turkey or it gets away!!

I also thank God and it's more in perspective of giving thanks for providing the resource and the opportunity.  I have a friend that thought his brother killed more deer because he tithed more at church.  I told him there are a whole lot of folks that kill way more game that have never stepped in a church or probably even believe in God.

I'm amazed at the number of guys that say they don't hunt in my home state, but travel to hunt in one of the destination states.  And those that I know personally, it boils down to the difficulty of killing one as compared to an easier path.  Maybe it's wrong of me to think this, but I think most of those are placing more importance on killing, and in many cases, posting on social media, than they are with actually enjoying the hunting aspect of it.  It's the desire for instant gratification and glory with many.  I'd rather kill 1 hard earned gobbler than 3 non pressured from a turkey paradise.  Now, don't get me wrong, occasionally those are very nice and accepted, but personally get more out of the other.  Everyone is different though. 

I guess my problem with reaping is purely from a management and ethical standpoint. I am not for telling people what they can and can't do from a safety standpoint. In other words I support darwinism to an extent. What I wish would happen is that people would realize that we have implemented several different methods of killing turkeys that are very efficient and don't require time and skill to master. This in turn is doing a lot of damage to our turkey populations and age structures. No one wants to hear it but those people bragging about "stacking them up" and posing for as many hero shots as possible will be the first ones complaining about the lack of turkeys. We are our own worst enemy and refuse to acknowledge it. It would do us all good to remember that we are conservationist first and foremost. There is absolutely no shame in leaving some gobblers for next year. They have already made it to adulthood(which is the hardest part) so the odds are decent you can hear him gobble the following spring. Nothing will change on that front though until bag limits are cut or legal means of hunting are restricted.

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This is slightly off topic from the previous few comments but I think it has been talked about in this thread, so I figured I would ask here. Does anyone have a link to the video where THP shot a dusting hen? I want to see exactly what went down there.

Quote from: Pluffmud on June 06, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
This is slightly off topic from the previous few comments but I think it has been talked about in this thread, so I figured I would ask here. Does anyone have a link to the video where THP shot a dusting hen? I want to see exactly what went down there.

Here are the links to the video and THP boys discussion about the incident.
https://youtu.be/aoanRZsfwSM
https://youtu.be/X0jD8LJ7qxs

Thanks.

Older birds used to never die beginning of the season.  Most older birds wouldn't die at all.  Now with a strutter decoy and open field a big old longbeard is way easier to lure and kill.  When the old birds die easy at beginning of the season  then I think it messes with the breeding cycle in a major way.  Half the newbies hunting now couldn't kill one without a decoy.  Again my main concern is older birds now die way to easy and way to early in the season. 

Quote from: 3chunter on January 09, 2021, 10:42:52 PM
Older birds used to never die beginning of the season.  Most older birds wouldn't die at all.  Now with a strutter decoy and open field a big old longbeard is way easier to lure and kill.  When the old birds die easy at beginning of the season  then I think it messes with the breeding cycle in a major way.  Half the newbies hunting now couldn't kill one without a decoy.  Again my main concern is older birds now die way to easy and way to early in the season.

Totally agree with this.  The use of "strutting gobbler" imitations in spring gobbler hunting has totally changed the mortality rates for mature gobblers in terms of hunting harvest.  There is no question that the impact of this relatively recent development in spring gobbler hunting has to be assessed as to its impact in declining turkey populations.

Kind of Leary of reviving  this discussion, but hey we haven't had a good go round for a while. Back when I ran a check station most of the truly big old birds came  in at the end of the season, they were still actively gobbling and breeding when the jakes, two and three year old were getting back into gobbler flocks and not gobbling much. So I think this premise has merit. I agree it could have a link to our falling populations. Actually, we are scary efficient predators, there are no others on the planet like us

  I agree- Reaping should be illegal in every State.

Hear is what I think about it. I think it compensates for wanna be turkey hunters. People love hero shots to put on social media and only care about killing something. Disgusting to me. Never done it and never will. Its about the hunt not the kill for me. Thats my 2 cents.

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on January 20, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
"I think it compensates for wanna be turkey hunters. People love hero shots to put on social media"

JMO but I think a lot of folks would quit hunting if they couldn't brag on it. Never had any social media account other than FB and cancelled that.

Quote from: Turkeyman on January 21, 2021, 12:20:10 PM

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on January 20, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
"I think it compensates for wanna be turkey hunters. People love hero shots to put on social media"

JMO but I think a lot of folks would quit hunting if they couldn't brag on it. Never had any social media account other than FB and cancelled that.

I agree 100 percent.

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on January 20, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
Hear is what I think about it. I think it compensates for wanna be turkey hunters. People love hero shots to put on social media and only care about killing something. Disgusting to me. Never done it and never will. Its about the hunt not the kill for me. Thats my 2 cents.

Totally agree, some of my most memorable hunts I never pulled the trigger

I've gotten to the point where I can usually call in a bird. Reeping doesn't seem necessary.

Others can do as they please, for me it is too dangerous.

[/quote] In the words of Phil Anselmo, "Be yourself, by yourself." [/quote]

The next line of that song "stay away from meee.."  Also applies to my turkey hunting  :TooFunny:

I had to Google what it is
Id never do it on public.
Other then that I dont understand what is so bad about it. I think itd be fun

Not legal in Pennsylvania.  Even if it was I would never hunt turkeys like that as IMO you are asking to get shot!  Way to dangerous.  I am very careful here and very seldom even use my gobble tube call.

Reaping is not my cup of tea either, doesn't seem very safe and IMO is questionable how "Fair Chase" it really is.  i.e. why make electronic calling illegal (a recorded real turkey call) but allow sneaking in behind a real turkey fan?

One thing about turkey hunting in the PNW, is that much of the prime turkey habitat is covered in Poison Oak.  I have previously thought this to be negative, but on second thought an understory of Poison Oak keeps the belly crawlers/reapers to a minimum  ;D

I don't reap, I just wear a strutter helmet.


(https://i.imgur.com/QWz19jw.png)



When someone finally shoots me, I hope the video gets a million views!!!!

I have stayed away from commenting on this thread anymore, but I watched that video and I was honestly disgusted !  :angry9: :angry9:  Not even wearing camo. In my neck of the woods they would go damn hungry and embarrassed, you rarely ever see gobblers out in fields while driving around. If you ain't in the hills and woods you ain't killing turkeys. This is not turkey hunting, this is something else and I want no part of it. The very fact they are keeping a timed body count, tells me a whole lot about character

It has gotten to the point where I have recognized that it is not the turkeys that have soured me on my long held passion, but the recent people who have taken up the "game"and their idea of how the game should be played.  I wish all would read and understand Chapter 3 of Kenny Morgan's book, America, Wild Turkeys and Mongrel Dogs".  Kenny explains it more succinctly than I ever could.  The question for one to answer is "Am I a mongrel, and am I OK with that?"

If some of you believe reaping is bad what do you think about rifles legal in states like Wyoming and South Dakota during turkey season?  It seems like rifles are pretty darn effective at shooting turkeys at long ranges.  It's pretty spooky having rifle turkey hunters in an area with turkey reapers hiding behind a decoy or even hunters sitting in a stand behind decoys.

Quote from: jims on February 18, 2022, 05:06:49 PM
........ what do you think about rifles legal in states like Wyoming and South Dakota during turkey season?

I couldn't stand behind it.  No way, in the spring.

2018, my brother and I hunted an awesome public tract in Wyoming.  Took us 5 1/2 days to each manage to hang a tag on mature longbeards.

IF............. If I had been using a rifle......... I could have personally killed at least 6 mature birds.  Can't speak for my brother without asking him.  But I'm guessing a similar number for him as well.

BIIIIIG difference taking a Merriam's in big country with a shotgun than a rifle.

Way back in the 90s I hunted Montana and my buddy's son worked for the forest service out there. We hunted SE Montana and he  warned me t not set up on birds in open ground in sight of any road. He said a large part of the hunters just drove the roads and shot birds with rifles. So we stayed back and never saw another hunter, but you'd hear a rifle crack every now and then. I suppose it's different now. Back then Montana was new to turkey hunters.

I still deal with that in WV. I would venture 75% of the turkeys killed in the areas I hunt are with rifles.

Getting a bit off-topic, but since we have brought it up...

Back before about 1980 or thereabouts, there used to be an all-out war on turkeys here in New Mexico.  Rifles were legal in the fall and every deer hunter got a turkey tag with the deer license.  We had 115,000 deer hunters shooting at turkeys as a consolation prize.  Still, our turkeys managed to do pretty well even with that kind of pressure put on them. 

Nevertheless, we finally got the rifle hunting outlawed by lobbying our Game Commission with the fundamental argument that allowing high-powered rifle hunters to, in essence, "blow up" body-shot turkeys that would most likely be thrown away was not in any way, shape, or form good wildlife management. 

Fortunately, rifles have never been legal in our spring season.  Here, people that suggest that we legalize rifle hunting for turkeys anymore get laughed out of the room,...and for good reason.   

there honestly isnt much opportunity in the enviroments i hunt in to even attempt it. it may be a popular tactic for certain folks, in certain situations in certain enviroments....but i would say in the places i predominantly hunt reaping is a non factor. I dont like it either, but theres a bunch of things in the turkey hunting world i dont like.

I have stated this before, but i would never do "reaping" as i don't have a death wish. But on the flip side of the coin, if folks really believed in fair chase, they would go afield naked save for a loincloth and arm themselves with a hand napped flint spear, only using their voice for a call. I mean, if we are going to be honest, how sporting is using hi-tech camo clothing, tss fueled shotguns equipped with optics, and carrying 10 different calls? Everyone has their own perception as to what is sporting, according to the standards of their community. Just food for thought.

Well said @the Ward!  This and threads like it are just the turkey hunting version of the traditional vs xbow debates on archery sites.  At the end of the day, TSS, reaping, decoys, etc, do almost nothing to the turkey population reduction in real numbers as compared to nest raiders and predators.  We need to focus on the majors and ignore the minors like this until and unless the populations trend much better.  Divided we fall...

So, how do y'all feel about turkey trotlines.....don't hold back now. Hillbillies think it's a fine way to catch viddles

I run the local turkey trot every year... but 100% against rape.

Seriously, these type threads are a waste of time.

Quote from: RiverBuck on February 20, 2022, 12:58:33 PM
I run the local turkey trot every year... but 100% against rape.

Seriously, these type threads are a waste of time.

That was my point, more times then not they divulge into....well something less than constructive

Regardless of any of our individual thoughts and attitudes about reaping, I believe this issue will ultimately come down to a management decision within wildlife agencies as to how the use of gobbler decoys/fans in any form is impacting the wild turkey resource.  We discuss at length the factors that are impacting wild turkey populations, but you rarely see anybody bringing up the impact that using male turkey representations has had over the last decade or two.  Is it a coincidence that declines in turkey populations over the last ten/twenty years seems to be inversely related to the increase in male-turkey decoy and fan use?  Personally, I am not so certain there is not a correlation there, and in fact, I would suggest it is a significant factor.

As has been stated many times in this thread and others, there is absolutely no doubt that the percentage of gobblers being harvested in any population has significantly increased since the effectiveness of "male-turkey representations" came to light.  That "discovery" is a relatively recent phenomenon in turkey hunting.  Reaping, itself, is just a subset of the bigger problem of whether ANY sort of use of gobbler/jake decoys or fans should be allowed for spring gobbler hunting.  Reaping is just the easiest target for criticism because of some perceived safety issue we have pinned on it. 

I would speculate that the increase in gobbler harvest since male-turkey representations became a fad is a significant factor in decreased gobbler numbers in a number of places.  Not only that, but since a lot of that increased harvest is coming in the form of mature, perhaps dominant (i.e..."breeding"), gobblers in the population, the impact on breeding saturation of the hen population is not at all clear, and in turn, really should be being investigated more seriously as a potential limiting factor in turkey populations.

Decades ago, the entire premise about spring gobbler hunting was that there would always be surplus gobblers that could be harvested out of any turkey population without impacting that population.  That premise was, to a degree, based on the assumption that there would always be a certain percentage of the mature gobbler population that would not be susceptible to traditional hunting methods used at that time.  Perhaps it is time to reevaluate that premise on a wide-spread basis simply because of the discovery of the effectiveness of male decoys and fanning...and make some needed adjustments. 

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 21, 2022, 09:11:52 AM
Regardless of any of our individual thoughts and attitudes about reaping, I believe this issue will ultimately come down to a management decision within wildlife agencies as to how the use of gobbler decoys/fans in any form is impacting the wild turkey resource.  We discuss at length the factors that are impacting wild turkey populations, but you rarely see anybody bringing up the impact that using male turkey representations has had over the last decade or two.  Is it a coincidence that declines in turkey populations over the last ten/twenty years seems to be inversely related to the increase in male-turkey decoy and fan use?  Personally, I am not so certain there is not a correlation there, and in fact, I would suggest it is a significant factor.

As has been stated many times in this thread and others, there is absolutely no doubt that the percentage of gobblers being harvested in any population has significantly increased since the effectiveness of "male-turkey representations" came to light.  That "discovery" is a relatively recent phenomenon in turkey hunting.  Reaping, itself, is just a subset of the bigger problem of whether ANY sort of use of gobbler/jake decoys or fans should be allowed for spring gobbler hunting.  Reaping is just the easiest target for criticism because of some perceived safety issue we have pinned on it. 

I would speculate that the increase in gobbler harvest since male-turkey representations became a fad is a significant factor in decreased gobbler numbers in a number of places.  Not only that, but since a lot of that increased harvest is coming in the form of mature, perhaps dominant (i.e..."breeding"), gobblers in the population, the impact on breeding saturation of the hen population is not at all clear, and in turn, really should be being investigated more seriously as a potential limiting factor in turkey populations.

Decades ago, the entire premise about spring gobbler hunting was that there would always be surplus gobblers that could be harvested out of any turkey population without impacting that population.  That premise was, to a degree, based on the assumption that there would always be a certain percentage of the mature gobbler population that would not be susceptible to traditional hunting methods used at that time.  Perhaps it is time to reevaluate that premise on a wide-spread basis simply because of the discovery of the effectiveness of male decoys and fanning...and make some needed adjustments.

Winner! Hard to put it better than that. Thanks for taking the time to type that response.

If there is any indication that a percentage of hens are not being bred because there is a lack of gobblers, then taking steps to reduce the gobbler harvest (banning gobbler decoys) may be something to look at.
As it stands, I'm not aware of a population that is lacking in males to service the females. I know some States start killing gobblers too early in the season before the majority of the hens are bred, but this is a separate issue.

There is no doubt that blinds and realistic decoys have allowed mediocre turkey hunters to kill gobblers year after year.

Quote from: Number17 on February 21, 2022, 12:53:18 PM
If there is any indication that a percentage of hens are not being bred because there is a lack of gobblers, then taking steps to reduce the gobbler harvest (banning gobbler decoys) may be something to look at.
As it stands, I'm not aware of a population that is lacking in males to service the females.

I am also not aware that a lack of gobblers is a problem, but I think the question to ask is if there have been any studies undertaken in areas of concern which would either confirm or eliminate the concern that there may be too few gobblers in a given population (or area) to have complete, or near-complete, breeding of all breeding-age hens.  I am personally not aware that any such studies have been undertaken.  Perhaps they have been and maybe someone here might cite them.  If there have not been such studies done, particularly in those areas of concern, there should be. 

In addition, with the apparent long-term reproductive failure/population recruitment problems that seem to exist in some regions, continuing to kill off a percentage of the remaining gobblers each spring has got to raise a red flag of concern at some point in time.  Again, this may not be a problem anywhere, but it is at least worth considering and investigating along with all the other potential culprits that might be causing our turkey population declines. 

I can't speak on the reaping part but the biggest cancer where I live (Eastern NC) is douche bags riding around 2 or 3 to a truck and riding around until they find one in a field. They drop 1 off and he sneaks through the woods, gets close to the edge & shoots the unsuspecting gobbler if he gets close enough, which most of these douche nozzles will shoot at one at 100yds if able. If that's turkey hunting to you then may I suggest taking up another hobby, like knitting!

Quote from: Strutnut80 on April 18, 2022, 12:49:16 PM
I can't speak on the reaping part but the biggest cancer where I live (Eastern NC) is douche bags riding around 2 or 3 to a truck and riding around until they find one in a field. They drop 1 off and he sneaks through the woods, gets close to the edge & shoots the unsuspecting gobbler if he gets close enough, which most of these douche nozzles will shoot at one at 100yds if able. If that's turkey hunting to you then may I suggest taking up another hobby, like knitting!

You've seen this happen how many times?

I have had it happen to me three times that I am aware of.  No telling how many instances I am unaware of.  It is not turkey hunting, rather it is turkey killing.  If the latter, then they should take up knitting or some other harmless endeavor.

Quote from: Number17 on April 18, 2022, 10:45:35 PM

Quote from: Strutnut80 on April 18, 2022, 12:49:16 PM
I can't speak on the reaping part but the biggest cancer where I live (Eastern NC) is douche bags riding around 2 or 3 to a truck and riding around until they find one in a field. They drop 1 off and he sneaks through the woods, gets close to the edge & shoots the unsuspecting gobbler if he gets close enough, which most of these douche nozzles will shoot at one at 100yds if able. If that's turkey hunting to you then may I suggest taking up another hobby, like knitting!

You've seen this happen how many times?

Hell.. they will tell you what they do, I don't have to see it. Countless others have the same stories. They're not doing anything "illegal" since the ones I know who do it are on their property. Still a douche bag way to hunt even though it's legal

I have no problem with reaping, people who participate in the tactic or states that ban it. NJ bans it and their turkey population is declining regardless, nope not reaping's fault. It is a very effective tactic, exciting and moderately physically demanding. The last point will limit the participation. Yes, I have reaped a turkey and had two other partners reap one each. It is fun, but neither of us have done it since, still prefer to call them in and see the show.

I hunt a neighboring state and some public land, mostly private but I do belong to several gun clubs and I know a fair amount of turkey hunters and even more general hunters. None of them have ever attempted to reap a bird, some say "that must be exciting". Most say that the fun is calling them in.

To say it's dangerous that someone from a distance will rip a rifle round at you, especially in a state that bans rifles? You stand a better chance of getting hit by a drunk driver early on a saturday AM going to your hunting spot to reap a bird than you are of getting shot.

States should ban shooting hens all year, no fall birds and no bearded hens in spring. Maybe ban fall turkey hunting all together. Move seasons back a week maybe even 2 weeks to allow more nesting, reduce bag limit of males. No two birds in one day, spread it out one in the beginning half and one the last half.

Seriously how many birds are "reaped" as a percentage of the harvest? I'm going to guess its less than 2.5% making it statistically not significant.

The experts say there are five stages of hunter development:

Stage 1:  Shooting Stage
Stage 2:  Limiting Out Stage
Stage 3:  Trophy Stage
Stage 4:  Method Stage
Stage 5:  Sportsman Stage

IMHO, every hunter who has reached the Sportsman stage of hunter development reached that stage by going through the other four stages in some manner or other during their development as a hunter.  Birds of a feather flock together....so the influence of a particular hunter's circle of friends strongly influences hunter's sometime getting stuck in stages 1 or 2.  Unfortunately. marketing focuses on stages 1 and 2, and the TV shows, YouTube and wannabes feed that area of development or lack of.....