Hello fellow turkey hunting lovers. I've been waiting to bring up this topic. Now that it's just the few of us that are still looking at a turkey hunting forum while deer season is kicking off maybe this won't get too western. I'd like to get some honest feedback on this. Last spring I found a new area that had good turkey sign. I hunted it two or three times probably within a week. I heard a couple gobblers in the area and found a really big set of turkey tracks in the dirt road. This was towards the end of season and I felt like I was onto a good one. I was narrowing down where he was roosting at. He managed to get away from me the first couple times and would end up on private. My third trip into this area I snuck in really early and got in as quiet as a church mouse. The sky started to lighten up and after a few minutes I saw some movement up in a tree right in front of me about 30-40 yds. I couldn't believe it. I finally had him. At this point I realize I had leaned my shotgun up against the tree when I sat down and it was still leaning against the tree on my weak side. I began the inch by inch process of reaching, grabbing, and swinging my gun around at a snails pace. I finally had my gun ready. The gobbler was still there on the limb. At this point he was mine. I could see a rope of a beard hanging off this bird and knew it had to be the one leaving the big tracks in the road. All I had to do was pull the trigger, but I couldn't. I knew you "weren't supposed to shoot them off the limb." If he would pitch down anywhere right in front of me I could smoke him when his feet hit the ground. But he didn't. He glided past me to where I couldn't see and walked straight onto the private. He never said a word that morning. I don't think he had a clue I was there. He was acting normal in the tree. I got to thinking about this after I got home. I don't think it's technically illegal to shoot them out of the tree, maybe it is and this discussion is over. I got to thinking about people (buckle up) reaping birds. How a bird will just run across a field and act stupid and get shot. I know a group of guys that crawled out into a field behind a fan and shot three or four big gobblers. It sounded like WW3 out there. Or someone shooting a bird at 70 or 80 yds. How is that fair. I don't think it is. I did more to earn that bird on a limb. I scouted a crap ton, got there early multiple days, finally figured it out, I snuck in close like a ninja lol, and also just got lucky. Some people told me they would have shot it. One guy told me he had already shot one off the roost last season. If you shoot him as soon as he touches the ground it seems about the same thing almost, but I know nobody would hesitate to do that. Anyway I'm happy with my interaction with the bird. If I'm being honest sometimes I wish I would have shot him. I consider myself an ethical hunter and try to do the right thing. I think it's important to be honest with each other. With the way things are online these days if you say something vulnerable like that be prepared to receive a verbal lashing from the morally superior hunters. How many people would be honest here and admit if they have or would given the chance. Is this just a definite hard no, or is it something that's up to your own personal feelings? It's not something I would try to do, but if it's been a long tough season it could be tempting sometimes. This was a smart old bird and I hope he's still around next spring. These public land birds in Alabama are tough to come by and I love to get after them. Tell me what you think and let's all get out and shoot a few deer to pass the time until our favorite time of year comes back around.
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Early in my career (1960's) in South Florida the rule book wasn't very thick and that was an acceptable MO. If you were able to pull it off you didn't think anything about pulling the trigger. I have done it on more than one occasion on gobblers, and fall hens. Then once we had been hunting them a few years we adopted a few new rules of engagement, and that exact scenario that used to be accepted was now taboo. And every few years after that we added more and more personal rules. Now modern day, my personal rule book is pretty thick, and page one mentions no limb lifting, period!
A few years ago, I almost had the same thing happen. Gun propped on a tree and me standing still in the dark, after a stud of a bird I had scouted and hunted hard. I was standing waiting for first gobble, to make a move (He never gobbled more than twice, except for the morning mentioned below). All of a sudden he pitched down about 20 yds from me in the dark. I mean dark. Could barely make out his silhouette. I was scared to move. He walked out of sight and never made a sound all morning. A morning or two later he gobbled a few times on the ground walking straight to me (I had not made a call). So close we were about to top the hill eye to eye. I moved back fast so I had a lil room between us when he popped on top. Still I had not called. About the time I saw him, he pitched up and over a fence to my weak side onto private. I watched him walk out of sight. Never did get that bird.
I don't believe I would ever shoot one out of a tree. I view it as a safe zone for him. Each to their own. I would rather try him again another day.
Sorry for the story.
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Thanks for sharing. I like your personal rule book perspective.
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Nice story upfold. It's amazing how they can get away like that. It seems like you've got one in he bag and nope he's gone again!
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You definitely did the right thing. Hunters nowadays have a kill at all costs mentality. To my way of thinking, how you kill the bird matters.
You referenced what other hunters do, and what other hunters might have
done in your situation. If you have your own personal set of rules that
you hunt by, that isn't affected by what others do.
I have been in similar situations as yours a number of times. Those are
some of my most memorable hunts. Watching a bird gobbling and strutting on a limb at 30-40 yards is something I will never forget.
I would venture to say that in 5-10 years you will look back on that
hunt and be glad you didn't shoot. I don't know about you or anyone
else, but for me my most memorable hunts and the ones I think about
the most are the ones where the bird got away.
It's illegal to kill a bird off the roost in Kentucky. Roost is loosely defined as where a turkey goes to spend the night. I know back in the day folks used to moonlight birds ie go out on a full moon night and silhouette birds against the moon and bust them out of the tree but that damn near drove them to extension. Irrespective of the law I personally just don't see it as sporting or fun to kill a bird in his bed
Quote from: Jimspur on September 17, 2021, 09:09:34 PM
else, but for me my most memorable hunts and the ones I think about
the most are the ones where the bird got away.
Definitely! I can think back on many birds that got away. They definitely stick with you. I don't regret not shooting the bird. I'm glad he's still out there but I think if it wasn't something you're not supposed to do I would have been happy to shoot him that morning. I would have felt better about doing that than some of the other techniques that are used to kill birds today. I will be checking in on him and his buddies shortly.
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In my opinion you made a wise decision, you get to hunt him another day, nothing better than a gobbler coming to you in full strut on the ground..
You did the right thing hands down! I have put the bead on several in the tree over the years and have yet to take one that way.
I have also had those momentarily regrets that your talking about but they didn't last. Glad I didn't.
Always do the right thing and good things will happen to you!
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Among most turkey hunters, serious ones for sure, roost shooting is not considered sporting. Indeed, it's against the law in many states.
Is it unethical? I don't know, but my personal rulebook (guess who coined the phrase but we all have one) says no roost shooting. Is it that much different than shooting him when his feet hit the ground? Maybe not a lot, but enough difference for my rulebook.
Anyone who has been on OG for anytime at all knows I think if it's legal and it makes you happy, then go for it. I really don't care what Internet holier than thou's think.
I don't personally roost shoot birds, and in these days of increasing hunter numbers and diminishing turkey numbers, I think all states should outlaw the practice of roost shooting. Until such time as they do, we as turkey hunters who love the sport should refrain from the practice for the sake of turkey populations.
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
You say you would have been happy with taking that bird off the roost but at the time you didn't do it because you heard it shouldn't be done. I'm guessing there was more to it than that. Are you looking for validation for not taking or permission to take? Ultimately the only one it matters to is you. Do you feel you did the right thing?
Im guessing it would have bothered you. Maybe not right away but it would have. The thought of taking that gobbler bothers you still.
Lots of excellent comments on this subject made above. There are a number of good reasons to establish limitations on what is allowable,...and what is not,...in turkey hunting. Ultimately, however, it is all about protecting the resource. I will take a stab at trying to tie some of these thoughts together.
When spring gobbler seasons were first established "way back when", there was the general feeling that turkeys were abundant enough,...and wary enough,...that they could handle whatever hunting pressure we threw at them. The thinking was,..."We are shooting gobblers only, theoretically, and we don't need many gobblers in a population to ensure the population stays viable. Hunters will never be able to kill enough gobblers out of the population to threaten the resource."
Back then, the "understood" method of hunting was one of calling to a gobbler and shooting him if he showed up. There were no DSD or AvianX decoys,...nor the now-widespread general knowledge that waving a fan at a gobbler (a gobbler that would likely never approach a turkey sound it could not see the source of) will often result in him being in your lap in short order.
The bottom line is that we have reached a point in time where, with all the gadgetry and relatively new-found knowledge of turkey behavior, we are too efficient at killing turkeys. That gadgetry and efficiency was never imagined by those that first established spring gobbler seasons,...and now turkeys (and us hunters) are paying the price.
Recognizing that the problem of reproductive success is not hunting-related is one thing. Understanding that we have to institute measures to protect what remains of the resource is quite another. Not shooting turkeys on the roost is just one of those measures that should be pretty obvious. Shooting a turkey off its roost is simply "killing" a turkey. It is not "hunting" a turkey. There is a significant difference,...in my mind at least.
Of course, depending on one's personal "position" on turkey hunting, the same can be said for the use of decoys, and fans, and hunting over food plots or feeders,...and maybe a few other hunting methods in use. Again, we have become too efficient in this turkey-hunting business,...and we have to admit it to ourselves and realize that we have to do something about it.
Recognizing that some methods are "turkey hunting", and some methods are just "turkey killing" would be a good start. Although shooting a turkey off of its roost is probably an insignificant factor as compared to some of the other methods in use today, it still falls squarely into the "turkey killing" category rather than the "turkey hunting" category.
Coming from a morally superior hunter, you answered your own question by your action; don"t second guess it.
I hunt turkeys to do the dance. There would be no enjoyment shooting one on the limb.
A few years back, before I got my first Osceola, I was chasing a Tom. Was getting late and he stopped calling so I packed up. As I 'm driving out I see him running along side the truck, 40 yds away. I could have easily shot him, but why? Left him for another day.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I appreciate your views. Many of you have mentioned your own personal rule book and I do have one of those myself. I definitely have some strong feelings about some of the techniques and technologies mentioned here in this thread and I guess I just wanted work out this roost thing. I don't find myself in that position too often. What this old bird did was almost bulletproof for him. I'm not sure if his feet ever touched the ground before he hit the private.
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Quote from: Crghss on September 18, 2021, 03:19:09 PM
I hunt turkeys to do the dance. There would be no enjoyment shooting one on the limb.
Same.
If I wanted to just swat something I'd shoot a squirrel or a groundhog.
In my state, limb shooting in the spring is not legal. The bird must be "called to your location". But, even if it were 100% legal........ IMO, it'd be 200% pointless. I hunt spring birds for the gobble.........the strut.......the heart-pounding moments when he's RIGHT THERE but not quite in range. That's what I'm in it for. I so crave the gobble in the spring that I won't shoot a longbeard in the fall. I'd rather revisit him in the spring when he's doing that thing.
Quote from: silvestris on September 18, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Coming from a morally superior hunter,
In your own mind maybe.... but if it makes you feel better about yourself.
Here's my take on it. That bird was doing everything right to keep on living. And not to take away from your work and scouting it was a crappy twist of luck on his end that put his life in jeopardy. I think you made the right call but I also agree that blasting him as soon as his feet hit the the dirt really isn't any more sporting yet is wildly acceptable. Anyways you learned some valuable info and he may be around for a rematch next spring. I have had a similar experience with a gobbler several years ago and looking back I wouldn't change a thing.
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Quote from: Happy on September 19, 2021, 01:44:54 PM
Here's my take on it. That bird was doing everything right to keep on living. And not to take away from your work and scouting it was a crappy twist of luck on his end that put his life in jeopardy. I think you made the right call but I also agree that blasting him as soon as his feet hit the the dirt really isn't any more sporting yet is wildly acceptable. Anyways you learned some valuable info and he may be around for a rematch next spring. I have had a similar experience with a gobbler several years ago and looking back I wouldn't change a thing.
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I had heard him twice in the hole he was roosting by so it was his repetition that got him in a bad situation. And good luck for me that I was able to sneak in without blowing him out and bad luck for me that I got too close. Looking back based on the terrain I don't think I could have really improved on my set up. I hope he will be back. I'm definitely planning to pay him another visit and some of the other birds that managed to slip my grasp. At the end of the season I was grateful to have gotten so close to several long beards. It started out with crazy pressure but got really good towards the middle and end of the season. He will live on in my memory along with the others that got away!
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If I wanted to shoot something off a limb , I'd round up the hounds and tree a Coon.
I've never killed nor really thought of killing one off the roost.
But, I did kill a tree hopper. The bird gobbled off in a steep creek bottom that was thick and swampy and I was above the creek on a roadbed and the treetops were roughly a little above eye level. I heard wing flapping and a couple minutes later, I could see the old bird hopping from limb to limb and tree to tree. He was obviously looking for the hen (me) and eventually he hopped within range and even though he was "in a tree", I busted his arse and never felt bad at all.
As said before, if it's legal, then your choice. There's too many local customs and traditions to follow them all. I don't have the innards to tell you guys how I got my turkey this year. I'd be tarred and feathered. Can't shoot a turkey in a tree, I haven't, and can't shoot a goose on the water, I have. I also passed on a young bull elk back in 1970 even though the guide told me to shoot a bull if I had a chance because there was several hunters in camp with tags to fill. I remember walking up on a sleeping fox and barking at him to wake him up before I'd try a shot at him. (He got away.)
I'm happy that you're happy about not shooting that tom. Good luck next Spring.
To me, shooting a bird on the limb is a major no. I do think it should be illegal across the US and I wish that some of these "traditional Turkey rules" would be enforced by the sportsmen. That's how something as rich as Turkey hunting gets diluted and loses its soul. People are ultimately robbing themselves of the great experience that is "Turkey hunting" when they dont follow the rules.
I get it, I've been there. I remember being so frustrated at one point and I contemplated the idea. I was going after 1 bird for about a week straight. I got set up in the evening hoping to catch him heading back to roost (which is another debatable topic). He had about 3 spots he preferred and he went to spot #2. It was still pretty light out and he was in the tree.
I walked into the woods trying to pin point him for the next day, I saw him right there on the limb. About 25 yards from me. We looked at each other face to face, I reached this point of desperation and frustration that I contemplated breaking the rules. But I walked away, I didn't do it and I have no qualms about it.
Me and a buddy basically had this exact opportunity you mentioned. Especially my buddy, he looked at the long beard for an hour. Maybe 15-20 yards from him. Bird pitched down and followed a hen onto the private and that was it.
To me, I was glad to be able to experience that bird in all his glory just gobbling and drumming on that limb, letting it rip to every crow. That Bird gobbled like 4-5 times a minute for an hour.
Anyways I think you did the right thing, just throw those thoughts out of your mind. You would have no legitimate story on how you killed him and you would probably be embarrassed to even tell that story to another hunter.
Like other have mentioned, it's that dance that we do that drives me wild.
As far as him hitting the ground. I get what's trying to be said but it goes back to the rules. Once he's on the ground, it's fair game. Because sure, it's easy to do that comparison when he lands right in front of you at 30 yards, but how many times have we had him glide off entirely out of range and away. When he pitches down he still has a fighting chance, because he has the opportunity to pitch far away from you, or just straight down from the tree. In the tree his hands are tied (wings) he's not faced with the option of route A or B, he's ultimately getting shot in his bed.
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Thanks for sharing the stories. I'm guessing that bird you saw is on the ones the got away list. Sounds like another bird I was hunting last year. I was right on top of him three days in a row. He had girlfriends and somehow narrowly escaped me each time. He had survived a whole pile of pressure before I tangled with him towards the end of season.
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I believe it's illegal here in Alabama. You made the right choice. I appreciate your honesty.
I've never understood that.... It's unethical but legal??? I've never done it and always taught my kids that because that's what my dad taught me. You don't shoot a bird out of a tree.
I limb whooped one Tom years ago. He came in tree hopping at 10 am and lit 40' up in a poplar 10' from me. He made a loud thump when he hit the ground and no problems repeating that scenario if it happens again, is legal and ok in my book. I've had opportunities to shoot at roosted turkeys in the past, either first light having set up close under him unknowingly or simply had one fly up at dark and into gun range. Would never shoot in that instance and clearly illegal here. These days I won't unsling the gun if I walk up on a Tom that just stands there. Used to call those "free throws" and killed some like that early on.
As far as "methods" I am just as particular as many here and plenty of legal things I wouldn't think of doing. However, for most every hunter (who is honest with himself) pursuing a particularly tough old bird, there usually comes a point when it is perfectly ethical to employ any legal method to kill said old sob devil bird Tom. Doesn't happen often, but it's just the plain truth. I still got ninja skills if I get in a bad way.
Quote from: grayfox on September 22, 2021, 01:49:12 PM
I believe it's illegal here in Alabama. You made the right choice. I appreciate your honesty.
Agree, you made to right choice, we appreciate your honesty. Sometimes it's not easy to admit that we want to do the wrong thing occasionally. It's a strong person that resists. Feel good about your inner strength rather than second guessing a perceived failure in obtaining another kill. There was yesterday and there's always tomorrow.