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Just watched for 3rd time the YouTube video, NWTF put out announcing their consulting company's suggested changes to logo and marketing.
Not sure I'm onboard with it.
Found it interesting some of the consultants were new to hunting.
Also noted no turkey mounts (seen ducks and deer) in background
Of presenters.
Not a fan of new logo :(

https://www.turkeysfortomorrow.org/

Imagine what the rebranding cost and then imagine what that money could have meant if poured back into the resource. It's just another bad move by an organization that was outright begging a year ago, sending out dire financials and forecasts.


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I personally believe that the NWTF has finally recognized that, to survive, they have to change their image and get back to their original mission.  The logo change, and other slogan changes and the like that are likely to come are the first, obvious moves to do that.  Without some major changes in how they "run the show", I am skeptical that it will work.

In addition, TurkeysForTomorrow showing up on the scene just confirms to me that there are significant past-players in NWTF that have become disillusioned by the NWTF organization, as well.  The mission statement of TFT is what the NWTF should right now be focusing on,...and was at one time in its past. 

Having said the above, I sent TFT an email just a few days ago, after becoming aware of the start-up, stating my willingness to get involved, but also my concerns about TFT eventually turning into the new NWTF.  ...Have not received a response...

I agree with you 100%. Take someone hunting is the best marketing anyone can do for any species.
I've always looked forward to our state's juvenile hunts (turkey and deer)
every year for the last 25. It's getting harder to find children that are interested.
Oddly enough the last few years it has been the mother's who reached out and ask if I would take their child.

Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Quote from: topnotch on February 25, 2021, 09:09:52 AM
I agree with you 100%. Take someone hunting is the best marketing anyone can do for any species.
I've always looked forward to our state's juvenile hunts (turkey and deer)
every year for the last 25. It's getting harder to find children that are interested.
Oddly enough the last few years it has been the mother's who reached out and ask if I would take their child.

Although I agree with this general comment to an extent, hunter recruitment is about "quality" not "quantity".  Let's bring kids (and adults) that really WANT to be hunters into the fold,...and not worry about trying to convince the rest that they should start hunting "to protect the tradition".

The tradition will be protected by having the right, ethically-based folks,...both adults and kids,...representing hunting.  Where we will get in trouble is looking at protecting the hunting tradition as a function of numbers.  Right now in this country, the percentage of citizens that hunt is somewhere around 3-5%, if I am not mistaken.  That other 97% could get rid of us any time they want to.  The reason they don't?...It's because they recognize that hunting with "an ethical and moral foundation" is okay,....and they support that.

Introducing a kid to hunting that starts out with the perspective that hunting is just a real-live version of "Mortal Kombat"....and behaves accordingly in the woods, is not helping us "save" hunting in this country.  If anything, it is doing the exact opposite.

OK, I`m a little confused. Is this ( TFT ) a brand new organization OR is it the NWTF morphing into another organization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbet6byHGfE

If this is the video you guys are referring to I have no idea what the complaint is?  I think it was well done, showed a connection to the land and the food as well as showing actual hunting!  So what is the issue?

The logo is not my favorite but it doesn't bother me.

And with most of the kids these days removed from an outdoor lifestyle we need to get them from wherever they exist!

I had the pleasure of guiding some "spoiled" rich white kids from an affluent Chicago suburbs for the past few year on a late season crossbow deer hunt.  The "spoiled" lil guys were some of the more respectful kids I have met in recent years and at the very least they were exposed to a positive hunting experience. 

Only a couple out of the bunch will be "hunters" in my opinion but none will be Anti and that is nearly as important!   

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 25, 2021, 10:24:52 AM
OK, I`m a little confused. Is this ( TFT ) a brand new organization OR is it the NWTF morphing into another organization?

I believe it is a totally new "outfit" comprised of folks that either were or still are members of NWTF.  I believe they have just banded together to emphasize a focus on solving the problem of declining wild turkey numbers across the country.  I can't say for certain based on the information I've seen, but that's my initial impression.

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 09:11:55 AM
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Comparing the Nwtf to a man bun...

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I do agree I'm not a fan of the new logo.  Looks very childish to me.

That being said, that's far from the most important part.  I really do hope they have are serious in their approach to the future of the company and restoration efforts.   

I also am glad to see Turkeys for Tomorrow get started.  Competition is a good thing and I believe it will produce better results for all of us.   

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 25, 2021, 10:33:53 AM

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 25, 2021, 10:24:52 AM
OK, I`m a little confused. Is this ( TFT ) a brand new organization OR is it the NWTF morphing into another organization?

I believe it is a totally new "outfit" comprised of folks that either were or still are members of NWTF.  I believe they have just banded together to emphasize a focus on solving the problem of declining wild turkey numbers across the country.  I can't say for certain based on the information I've seen, but that's my initial impression.

If that`s what they are, then I`ll happily join.

Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 11:10:56 AM

Quote from: Bowguy link=topic=102010.msg1009200#msg1009200 da no te=1614262315
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Comparing the Nwtf to a man bun...

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My point is marketing decisions. What if your dentist was the best around but wore overalls? Your lawyer was great but didn't wear shoes? A great restaurant had waiters wear clean but old stained pants? Your wore your hunting clothes to your daughters wedding? It wouldn't show well now wood it? How do you think it'd be received? Marketing means something. If they want to recruit I'm pretty sure there's others like me think men should be men and actually look like em. If not theyre entitled but I'm not forced to listen. Seems they're aiming for hipsters. Not my thing. A real turn off and I've always defended and supported them. The logo is stupid too although imo unimportant. If you're gonna market you've got to weigh all decisions. Man bun ain't smart

I have not watched it all yet but when you start out a video apologizing for the new logo then you know it is not a good thing to begin with. I also agree with others that said that the money could have been used for things that actually benefited turkey

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 01:56:55 PM

Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 11:10:56 AM

Quote from: Bowguy link=topic=102010.msg1009200#msg1009200 da no te=1614262315
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Comparing the Nwtf to a man bun...

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My point is marketing decisions. What if your dentist was the best around but wore overalls? Your lawyer was great but didn't wear shoes? A great restaurant had waiters wear clean but old stained pants? Your wore your hunting clothes to your daughters wedding? It wouldn't show well now wood it? How do you think it'd be received? Marketing means something. If they want to recruit I'm pretty sure there's others like me think men should be men and actually look like em. If not theyre entitled but I'm not forced to listen. Seems they're aiming for hipsters. Not my thing. A real turn off and I've always defended and supported them. The logo is stupid too although imo unimportant. If you're gonna market you've got to weigh all decisions. Man bun ain't smart

Where are you seeing the marketing video with a man bun?
I can't find it. Could someone please post a link.

Quote from: Gooserbat on February 25, 2021, 08:32:35 AM
https://www.turkeysfortomorrow.org/

I think that this is a separate organization from NWTF (?).

Ive been following this s***-show on social media. My thoughts are that the nwtf has been going down the wrong road for years! And this new re-branding is a total  :TrainWreck1:!! Theyre so worried about the next generation of turkey hunters/ nwtf members and there donations and should be, but hate to be the guy to say it but the next generation is barely going to have birds to hunt.... that should be the main focus of the nwtf, plummeting turkey #'s accrossed the country! They have done a ton of good things and im not out to have a bashfest of nwtf. I cant help but think, where we'd be today in 2021 without the nwtf as turkey hunters?? Ill tell ya right now though that they wont be seeing a dime of my hard earned $$ until i start seeing some changes being made... and that starts at the top. Ill be donating to TFT from here on out.  This outside california marketing firm they hired is a trainwreck also, they lost me when Mr Manbun started his power point presentation. I just find it funny that all these guys tirelessly defending and still drinking the nwtf's coolaid have one thing in common, and that is that there livelihood($$$) comes from or depends directly on the nwtf. Heck even Cuz's latest video hes even drinking the coolaid.  Sad sign of the times, but, The old saying "Money makes the world go 'round" still rings true. I just hope they learn from this and can get back on the right track before its too late.

It's a shame really and it will take years to rebuild the reputation it once had, if ever. They fired and hired to many people they shouldn't have.

Maybe I'm wrong, but why aren't they trying to figure out why the population has declined across the country. I don't see anyone giving them money until they show they are putting it back into the sport.

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Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 03:38:13 PM
It's a shame really and it will take years to rebuild the reputation it once had, if ever. They fired and hired to many people they shouldn't have.

Maybe I'm wrong, but why aren't they trying to figure out why the population has declined across the country. I don't see anyone giving them money until they show they are putting it back into the sport.

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They do put back into the sport. At the refuge by my house they do mentored hunts. I'm often one of the mentors. They buy equipment, crossbows, bolts, finance food plots and blinds, food for the hunters, women's programs, Wounded warrior hunts,  etc. It's all about the save the hunt thing they were doing. That's good stuff. Idk why they don't get credit for that.

Quote from: Jimspur on February 25, 2021, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 01:56:55 PM

Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 11:10:56 AM

Quote from: Bowguy link=topic=102010.msg1009200#msg1009200 da no te=1614262315
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Comparing the Nwtf to a man bun...

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

My point is marketing decisions. What if your dentist was the best around but wore overalls? Your lawyer was great but didn't wear shoes? A great restaurant had waiters wear clean but old stained pants? Your wore your hunting clothes to your daughters wedding? It wouldn't show well now wood it? How do you think it'd be received? Marketing means something. If they want to recruit I'm pretty sure there's others like me think men should be men and actually look like em. If not theyre entitled but I'm not forced to listen. Seems they're aiming for hipsters. Not my thing. A real turn off and I've always defended and supported them. The logo is stupid too although imo unimportant. If you're gonna market you've got to weigh all decisions. Man bun ain't smart

Where are you seeing the marketing video with a man bun?
I can't find it. Could someone please post a link.

Hope this works https://youtu.be/KIJJ7LQdZ5c

Im a NWTF member and will continue supporting them for the time being but I feel all the money and effort in rebranding was a big waste in funds and resources. Not impressed at all.

Turkeys for Tomorrow has definitely peaked my interest and am intently following them for more info.


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Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
They do put back into the sport. At the refuge by my house they do mentored hunts. I'm often one of the mentors. They buy equipment, crossbows, bolts, finance food plots and blinds, food for the hunters, women's programs, Wounded warrior hunts,  etc. It's all about the save the hunt thing they were doing. That's good stuff. Idk why they don't get credit for that.

I do not deny that the NWTF does some positive things,  I have witnessed those things myself.  But your description above is a glaring example of what many of us that have turned out backs on NWTF are complaining about.  Not one of the things you bring up is solving the problems that we, as turkey hunters, are concerned with.

Many of the regions of the country are experiencing significant declines in turkey numbers, and it seems like NWTF is trying to focus most of its efforts on maintaining its money flow (to support an infrastructure and salary base that it can no longer sustain). 

Two of the recurring subjects that come up regularly in topics here on OG are 1) the declining turkey numbers in significant regions of the country, and 2) the increasing amount of hunting pressure put on that declining resource.  Yet, where is the NWTF focusing its efforts as far as we can tell?  That effort is now, and has been for at least the last decade, focused on maintaining its funding base by doing exactly the things you mention in an effort to attract folks as nothing more than sources of dollars.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for doing some of the things you bring up.  Its all touchy-feely stuff that makes people feel good about what they are doing.  It absolutely does nothing to help with solving the two problems mentioned above, and in fact, it only helps to exacerbate them. It is when I don't see a corresponding effort to fix the obvious problems that I question the NWTF motives. 

For many years now, it appears to a lot of us that the NWTF has been doing what they are doing strictly with dollar signs in their eyes and their actions seem to belie very little concern for the resource. 

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 25, 2021, 05:19:41 PM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
But your description above is a glaring example of what many of us that have turned out backs on NWTF are complaining about.  Not one of the things you bring up is solving the problems that we, as turkey hunters, are concerned with.

Absolutely! Recruitment won't matter when the opportunity is gone. A rebranding campaign that likely cost a hundred grand or more is the same type of exorbitant waste as the bloated salaries we've come to loathe. I want my money going to birds.


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I think the majority of you know my views about the N"WTF".   We parted ways years ago.  I usually don't waste my time with anything related to the subject.   But I have to say that this motivated me.  I went back and watched and old Steam music video as a salute in case this is the beginning of the end.   Some of the older members will probably know exactly what I'm talking about.   I never enjoyed it more than I did just now.   :gobble: :gobble:

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 25, 2021, 05:19:41 PM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
They do put back into the sport. At the refuge by my house they do mentored hunts. I'm often one of the mentors. They buy equipment, crossbows, bolts, finance food plots and blinds, food for the hunters, women's programs, Wounded warrior hunts,  etc. It's all about the save the hunt thing they were doing. That's good stuff. Idk why they don't get credit for that.

I do not deny that the NWTF does some positive things,  I have witnessed those things myself.  But your description above is a glaring example of what many of us that have turned out backs on NWTF are complaining about.  Not one of the things you bring up is solving the problems that we, as turkey hunters, are concerned with.

Many of the regions of the country are experiencing significant declines in turkey numbers, and it seems like NWTF is trying to focus most of its efforts on maintaining its money flow (to support an infrastructure and salary base that it can no longer sustain). 

Two of the recurring subjects that come up regularly in topics here on OG are 1) the declining turkey numbers in significant regions of the country, and 2) the increasing amount of hunting pressure put on that declining resource.  Yet, where is the NWTF focusing its efforts as far as we can tell?  That effort is now, and has been for at least the last decade, focused on maintaining its funding base by doing exactly the things you mention in an effort to attract folks as nothing more than sources of dollars.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for doing some of the things you bring up.  Its all touchy-feely stuff that makes people feel good about what they are doing.  It absolutely does nothing to help with solving the two problems mentioned above, and in fact, it only helps to exacerbate them. It is when I don't see a corresponding effort to fix the obvious problems that I question the NWTF motives. 

For many years now, it appears to a lot of us that the NWTF has been doing what they are doing strictly with dollar signs in their eyes and their actions seem to belie very little concern for the resource.

I think I misread what the fella was stating. I though he was referring to doing nothing for the sport positive  at all. They do that. Whatever the motivation it's being done. Now as far as your concerns I agree with that too.

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 03:56:10 PM

Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 03:38:13 PM
It's a shame really and it will take years to rebuild the reputation it once had, if ever. They fired and hired to many people they shouldn't have.

Maybe I'm wrong, but why aren't they trying to figure out why the population has declined across the country. I don't see anyone giving them money until they show they are putting it back into the sport.

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They do put back into the sport. At the refuge by my house they do mentored hunts. I'm often one of the mentors. They buy equipment, crossbows, bolts, finance food plots and blinds, food for the hunters, women's programs, Wounded warrior hunts,  etc. It's all about the save the hunt thing they were doing. That's good stuff. Idk why they don't get credit for that.

Then they need to make sure people are aware of it. They haven't done anything around here in a long time...Our chapter takes kids hunting every year, but those people would do it with or without them.

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Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 07:12:58 PM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 03:56:10 PM

Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on February 25, 2021, 03:38:13 PM
It's a shame really and it will take years to rebuild the reputation it once had, if ever. They fired and hired to many people they shouldn't have.

Maybe I'm wrong, but why aren't they trying to figure out why the population has declined across the country. I don't see anyone giving them money until they show they are putting it back into the sport.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

They do put back into the sport. At the refuge by my house they do mentored hunts. I'm often one of the mentors. They buy equipment, crossbows, bolts, finance food plots and blinds, food for the hunters, women's programs, Wounded warrior hunts,  etc. It's all about the save the hunt thing they were doing. That's good stuff. Idk why they don't get credit for that.

Then they need to make sure people are aware of it. They haven't done anything around here in a long time...Our chapter takes kids hunting every year, but those people would do it with or without them.

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Same here. We'd do it anyhow but the supply funds. Sorry I misunderstood what you were getting at

Thanks Bowguy for the link - I could only stomach about 20 minutes of the marketing B.S. I was a long time member of the NWTF for years until the 2008 fiasco. Looks like a change in strategy to attract more dollars, and to stay relevant to me.
It's a shame the way everything has gone down, but I'll never give them another cent. I wish them well.

Yeah I couldn't make it through the bs either. Heading further down a bad path in my opinion, and further from the resource everyday.  Here's a screenshot of the video showing the new logo. Someone already posted link to the video.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/c05c3a9b596bdf7e3d838f82665c1776.jpg)

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Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

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Quote from: Happy on February 25, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

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:TooFunny:

Quote from: guesswho on February 25, 2021, 09:04:45 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 25, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

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:TooFunny:

I knew it reminded me of something....they stole a 2nd graders Thanksgiving art project.

Quote from: Jimspur on February 25, 2021, 07:42:15 PM
Thanks Bowguy for the link - I could only stomach about 20 minutes of the marketing B.S. I was a long time member of the NWTF for years until the 2008 fiasco. Looks like a change in strategy to attract more dollars, and to stay relevant to me.
It's a shame the way everything has gone down, but I'll never give them another cent. I wish them well.

Can you elaborate on the 2008 fiasco?

It was when the leadership of the NWTF, a non-profit organization, was exposed for taking large salaries. I won't debate whether they were worth it or not but it stuck in the craw of a lot of people. Back then NWTF was largely a volunteer run organization, with a lot of people working hard for free. Then they found out how much money the leadership was making and it made a lot of people mad. They did do a lot of good things for turkeys in the beginning, but it morphed into a corporation where the leadership was taking a lot of the money from members for their salaries.
This is my opinion as an outsider looking in. Others who have more direct knowledge of the situation could probably explain it better than me.

With the Youtube video itself, i see nothing wrong with how it was put together, it touch several areas of  hunting wild turkeys,with adults, kids and handicap hunters. It's all about protecting the wild turkeys for future generations. In my opinion with what's going on in today's World we need the NWTF - TFT more than ever to help protect the future of hunting. We need these platforms to help protect our hunting heritage for the future, regardless what you think of the NWTF. I will continue to support the organization so hopefully one day my grandkids will have a chance to hunter these birds alone with future generations.  Everyone is entitled, to hunt and fish in most all states, this video is all about securing the future of hunting for generation to come.

I tried to watch it but I can't get through the whole thing. I didn't hear anything bad necessarily, but it's just too long.  I don't care for the new logo because it's too cartoonish, but I can understand the decision to update it.

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 09:11:55 AM. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Never judge a book by its cover, the gentleman is a US Navy Seal I think he's Man enough!!

Quote from: Hobbes on February 25, 2021, 09:18:11 PM

Quote from: guesswho on February 25, 2021, 09:04:45 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 25, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

:TooFunny:

I knew it reminded me of something....they stole a 2nd graders Thanksgiving art project.

It's so true. Very amateurish

Quote from: Jimspur on February 25, 2021, 11:12:03 PM
It was when the leadership of the NWTF, a non-profit organization, was exposed for taking large salaries. I won't debate whether they were worth it or not but it stuck in the craw of a lot of people. Back then NWTF was largely a volunteer run organization, with a lot of people working hard for free. Then they found out how much money the leadership was making and it made a lot of people mad. They did do a lot of good things for turkeys in the beginning, but it morphed into a corporation where the leadership was taking a lot of the money from members for their salaries.
This is my opinion as an outsider looking in. Others who have more direct knowledge of the situation could probably explain it better than me.

Thanks for the info.

Quote from: Jimspur on February 25, 2021, 11:12:03 PM
It was when the leadership of the NWTF, a non-profit organization, was exposed for taking large salaries. I won't debate whether they were worth it or not but it stuck in the craw of a lot of people. Back then NWTF was largely a volunteer run organization, with a lot of people working hard for free. Then they found out how much money the leadership was making and it made a lot of people mad. They did do a lot of good things for turkeys in the beginning, but it morphed into a corporation where the leadership was taking a lot of the money from members for their salaries.
This is my opinion as an outsider looking in. Others who have more direct knowledge of the situation could probably explain it better than me.

Pretty well sums it up.  As one that does "have more direct knowledge of the situation", you pretty much hit the nail on the head.  When the attitude of the leadership goes from "how much can I put into helping wild turkeys" to "how much can I get out of this for myself", you know the ship has turned in the wrong direction.  :icon_thumright:

My issue with the video is it seemed to be heavy on marketing and reinventing the brand and talking about how the logo appealed to younger hunters blah, blah, blah. I don't really give a crap about your 2nd grade looking logo. All the money they paid for this slick marketing BS could have benefited the wild turkey.

I want to know what percentage of money I donate is going to salaries, costs, etcetera, and how much is going to the wild turkey.

I am all for protecting the resource for future generations to come, I just don't want the bulk of my money going to marketing and advertising firms and corporate types that are making a living off of my dollar. I want my money helping turkeys. So instead of all this marketing BS, why not just come out and say hey - in the past some things were done that we don't feel were right but we have new leadership and are going to move in a new direction and want to earn your trust back. You lose me when you start talking about branding and creating a new logo that studies show appeals to a younger audience blah, blah, blah.

Now I only watched 21 minutes of the video so maybe they touched on these points. If they did then someone can correct me.

Quote from: Ol timer on February 26, 2021, 08:04:02 AM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 09:11:55 AM. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Never judge a book by its cover, the gentleman is a US Navy Seal I think he's Man enough!!

Perfect example about my point. If he looked like a seal and God bless him if he is, I'd prob be interested in what he had to say. If he looks like someone I have nothing in common with I'm not even gonna begin to start listening. Marketing is a skill they're real light on.

I guess Joe Biden looks like a US President

I was involved with a local chapter for awhile here in VA, from an inside perspective it was all about selling tickets for banquets and memberships.  I was taken back when I saw how much of the funds raised went into the super fund and did not stay local, it was less than a 1/4 raised.  Beyond that it was lets set up at X sporting goods store and sell memberships or lets put up the JAKES shooting range and sell memberships.  I get that it's membership driven and that membership dollars support it but I didn't volunteer to be a salesman and didn't see anyone around me interested in putting together a hunt for kids or wanting to work with our DWR on a habitat project.  Money, money, money just turned me of quick, especially when it's not benefitting you locally.  I, like many others, am watching closely to see if TFT picks back up the torch of what the NWTF used to be.  Especially given the turkey population declines the southeastern US is seeing now and for the last 10+ years.  I wish TFT well and hope the NWTF will once again regain focus.

Here is a little transparency behind NWTF financials:

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4201


The CEO only makes $319,000/yr.

Other wildlife/conservation non-profits rank a lot higher. Like QDMA (now NDA) and RMEF.

Quote from: Ol timer on February 26, 2021, 09:07:14 AM
I guess Joe Biden looks like a US President

Biden looks as embarrassing as the folks that voted him in. Remember not one person except maybe his wife voted for him. It was to beat Trump and I'm still not sure they did but that's past tense now. Do you hang on Biden's word or is he a poor choice for marketing in your view? That's my point. Not the man, not even what he's saying cause I ain't beginning to listen. I can respect a man for what he did. Doesn't mean I'd need to follow him though and I mean that respectfully towards him if he was what you say.
It's about marketing decisions. Somebody screwed up

In my opinion it was a lot of wasted money! Like others have stated the money should have been spent for things that help the Turkey. They spent money on a new logo which they did not need and should have spent time learning how to represent the logo. It's funny how last year they said they were sucking wind financially and now they got enough to blow it just doesn't make sense. Sounds like someone has friends in business and decided to help them out. Who is really worth 300,000 dollars a year any where any time for what ever the profession?

Everybody wants more turkeys and some people think we need more hunters. With a fixed amount of land for turkeys to live on and more people than ever hunting them how can the turkey population increase? There is only one way and nobody likes the answer. The answer is shorter seasons and lesser bag limits.

 :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :agreed:

Quote from: Happy on February 25, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

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Whelp, I finally got a minute to check it out. I made it 4 minutes and have seen enough. Pretty poor performance for a rebranding effort. If I had invested money into that presentation I would be asking for my money back

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So i have a question, if we lose the NWTF and this TFT fall to the wayside, what platform will we have to raise funds to save the habitat. 80 percent of the wildlife budget is from the sales of hunting and fishing licenses and  excise tax on sale of guns and ammo. So if we don't have these organizations to help make up the difference and we will lose public land easements and hunters what's the future hold? SO again for you who dislike this NWTF, what is your plan of action in helping secure these lands for future generation? I'm hearing a lot of I DON't like this or that, but i'm not hearing what YOUR plan of action would be for the future of hunting if you don't contribute to the NWTF. Way i look at it, if your not contributing or joining the NWTF, you really don't have a voice, it's like if you don't vote, you have not voice in the fight. I'm just asking, this is not to make people mad, i just want you to tell me your plan to help save the habitat and hunters. NOT all hunters have private land to hunt.

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 26, 2021, 03:45:23 PM
So i have a question, if we lose the NWTF and this TFT fall to the wayside, what platform will we have to raise funds to save the habitat. 80 percent of the wildlife budget is from the sales of hunting and fishing licenses and  excise tax on sale of guns and ammo. So if we don't have these organizations to help make up the difference and we will lose public land easements and hunters what's the future hold? SO again for you who dislike this NWTF, what is your plan of action in helping secure these lands for future generation? I'm hearing a lot of I DON't like this or that, but i'm not hearing what YOUR plan of action would be for the future of hunting if you don't contribute to the NWTF. Way i look at it, if you not a contribute or join the NWTF, you really don't have a voice, it's like if you don't vote, you have not voice in the fight. I'm just asking, this is not to make people mad, i just want you to tell me your plan to help save the habitat and hunters. NOT all hunters have private land to hunt.

I plant trees on our leases as well as my personal property. I am involved to some extent on some of our leases as far as management decisions, I buy extra nonresident tags and stamps I know I will not use(those funds go directly to the wildlife management as opposed to some fat businessman puffing a cigar and laughing at how easy it is.) I spread my hunting all over in order to not impact an area much. I teach my children and the people i take out the importance of these things.. I think I have said enough to cover the $25.00 donation the NWTF wants of mine. No thanks, I prefer to do things on my own and not make someone rich in the process.

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Let me predict the future for ya'll. 10 years from now some states will have to go to a draw system with preference points for turkeys. Will be just like Elk hunting in western states. Too much demand for too little resource, and the tags will be $300. Where I hunt we had more birds 25 years ago before NWTF became popular and got everybody into the sport. As a matter of fact, there were only 4 turkey hunters in the county and if you wanted to learn how you buddied up to one of them to take you. I wish it was still like that.

Quote from: deadbuck on February 26, 2021, 04:05:59 PM
Let me predict the future for ya'll. 10 years from now some states will have to go to a draw system with preference points for turkeys. Will be just like Elk hunting in western states. Too much demand for too little resource, and the tags will be $300. Where I hunt we had more birds 25 years ago before NWTF became popular and got everybody into the sport. As a matter of fact, there were only 4 turkey hunters in the county and if you wanted to learn how you buddied up to one of them to take you. I wish it was still like that.

I think you are spot on in regards to draw only for turkeys in some regions. I see the unit I am in now going that way before too long. Funny we had lots of birds when we ran a 1 month season, without all the specialty stuff the tack on for 2 weeks before the traditional opener, then have 2 more weeks tacked on after the traditional close. But I digress...

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 26, 2021, 03:45:23 PM
So i have a question, if we lose the NWTF and this TFT fall to the wayside, what platform will we have to raise funds to save the habitat. 80 percent of the wildlife budget is from the sales of hunting and fishing licenses and  excise tax on sale of guns and ammo. So if we don't have these organizations to help make up the difference and we will lose public land easements and hunters what's the future hold? SO again for you who dislike this NWTF, what is your plan of action in helping secure these lands for future generation? I'm hearing a lot of I DON't like this or that, but i'm not hearing what YOUR plan of action would be for the future of hunting if you don't contribute to the NWTF. Way i look at it, if your not contributing or joining the NWTF, you really don't have a voice, it's like if you don't vote, you have not voice in the fight. I'm just asking, this is not to make people mad, i just want you to tell me your plan to help save the habitat and hunters. NOT all hunters have private land to hunt.

Nobody said anything bad about TFT. I'm not saying this to make you mad, but for as long as I was a member of the NWTF and supported them, I'll say whatever I damn well please, whether you think I should have a voice or not.

If you choose to hitch your wagon to the new NWTF feel free to do so, but don't berate me for choosing not to support them. I'll see where this TFT organization goes and if I like the direction they're heading in then I'll choose to support them.

It would take some work for me to trust the NWTF again. They did do a lot of great things for the wild turkey which must be acknowledged. That's why it pains me to say this.
I didn't see anything in the 21 minutes of their video I watched that makes me want to join them again. Not enough substance for me.

That's my opinion - you may disagree and that's fine too.

Quote from: Jimspur on February 26, 2021, 06:57:31 PM

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 26, 2021, 03:45:23 PM
So i have a question, if we lose the NWTF and this TFT fall to the wayside, what platform will we have to raise funds to save the habitat. 80 percent of the wildlife budget is from the sales of hunting and fishing licenses and  excise tax on sale of guns and ammo. So if we don't have these organizations to help make up the difference and we will lose public land easements and hunters what's the future hold? SO again for you who dislike this NWTF, what is your plan of action in helping secure these lands for future generation? I'm hearing a lot of I DON't like this or that, but i'm not hearing what YOUR plan of action would be for the future of hunting if you don't contribute to the NWTF. Way i look at it, if your not contributing or joining the NWTF, you really don't have a voice, it's like if you don't vote, you have not voice in the fight. I'm just asking, this is not to make people mad, i just want you to tell me your plan to help save the habitat and hunters. NOT all hunters have private land to hunt.

Nobody said anything bad about TFT. I'm not saying this to make you mad, but for as long as I was a member of the NWTF and supported them, I'll say whatever I damn well please, whether you think I should have a voice or not.

If you choose to hitch your wagon to the new NWTF feel free to do so, but don't berate me for choosing not to support them. I'll see where this TFT organization goes and if I like the direction they're heading in then I'll choose to support them.

It would take some work for me to trust the NWTF again. They did do a lot of great things for the wild turkey which must be acknowledged. That's why it pains me to say this.
I didn't see anything in the 21 minutes of their video I watched that makes me want to join them again. Not enough substance for me.

That's my opinion - you may disagree and that's fine too.

Never said anyone dislikes the TFT. i think that's great direction for the new orgainization. Opinions very and every has one if you know what i mean.. thanks for your reply.. good luck this spring.

Quote from: Happy on February 25, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Looks like someone did the old hand tracing Thanksgiving turkey thingy for the logo.

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They spent so much time thinking about the arrows and the openness of the new logo, they didn't take a step back and look at it as a whole and realize it's NOT good, and looks too rudimentary.

These marketing pros are talking about public opinion like we need to get the public's permission or approval to do what we do. We carry on this tradition of turkey hunting because we enjoy it, and to honor those who came before us. Protect the species, advocate for sportsmen; but don't tell me why we need to change just to make the public opinion more favorable. That's called pandering.

I don't need to pad pockets of executives of a non-profit and be my voice in my world.

I do my part in turkey predator hunting year round. You don't have to own private land to join this team and getting upset about your turkey issues when you hunt 1.5 months a year for turkey then complain from behind a computer keyboard that your donation isn't helping is well... like a dog chasing its tail.

Quote from: RiverBuck on February 26, 2021, 08:02:28 PM
I don't need to pad pockets of executives of a non-profit and be my voice in my world.

I do my part in turkey predator hunting year round. You don't have to own private land to join this team and getting upset about your turkey issues when you hunt 1.5 months a year for turkey then complain from behind a computer keyboard that your donation isn't helping is well... like a dog chasing its tail.

Seems you're insinuating guys here are minimally invested. That's not even close to the case

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 26, 2021, 03:45:23 PM
So i have a question, if we lose the NWTF and this TFT fall to the wayside, what platform will we have to raise funds to save the habitat. 80 percent of the wildlife budget is from the sales of hunting and fishing licenses and  excise tax on sale of guns and ammo. So if we don't have these organizations to help make up the difference and we will lose public land easements and hunters what's the future hold? SO again for you who dislike this NWTF, what is your plan of action in helping secure these lands for future generation? I'm hearing a lot of I DON't like this or that, but i'm not hearing what YOUR plan of action would be for the future of hunting if you don't contribute to the NWTF. Way i look at it, if your not contributing or joining the NWTF, you really don't have a voice, it's like if you don't vote, you have not voice in the fight. I'm just asking, this is not to make people mad, i just want you to tell me your plan to help save the habitat and hunters. NOT all hunters have private land to hunt.

I agree that this is a double-edged sword.  Yes, we do need turkey hunters banded together in a unified force to make our voices heard.  NWTF has/had been that voice since 1973. Early on, there is no question that our unified voice under the NWTF banner made a big difference in bringing the wild turkey to the forefront in terms of its importance as a game species.   

The other edge of that sword, though, is that far too many of us have witnessed the transition of the NWTF leadership from "it's all about the wild turkey" to "it's all about the money".  The vision of the leadership has changed from the first to the second in the eyes of a great many of us that were involved with NWTF from the beginning. 

I totally agree that we still need the unified voice that the NWTF, or maybe the new kid in town, TFT, provides us.  But for far too many of us, changes in the direction the NWTF has taken have got to occur.  Our "unified voice" at this point in time is to tell the NWTF that they have gone off the rails and that if they want the support of "Average Joe" turkey hunter, they have got to get back on track.   

From a personal perspective, when NWTF puts their emphasis and their money back on doing all they can to fix the obvious problems our wild turkey populations are facing, I will jump right back on board.  Until I see some clear signs that they are doing that, and not primarily trying to keep their infrastructure and salary base afloat, I am out.   

All this bashing of what Happened in 2008, 13 years ago. Do I like that you tube commercial No! But to say that the NWTF is doing nothing is nonsense when you don't know what is going on if your not interested as a non member. Instead you should be asking what is your states F&W management doing with your license money. I can tell you that the State chapter has finally got my states F&W to agree on partnering up and planting seed on WMA that the State abandoned planting anything on for over 15 years in most areas. If it wasn't for the NWTF to push the issue to save the hunt save the habitat program it would not of happened. So the blame game goes around on all sides if your not willing to get on board with your states programs don't bitch.

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4201

Unless there's something I'm unaware of ? , I haven't seen a single thing the nwtf has done pro active in the southeast in years . They used to help with a couple of wma youth events and hunts . They planted seedlings / gated roads for brooding habitat etc , like gobblenut stated   They will not get my money again until I see it being put to work ...

Well... They burn thru 41 million a year doing something but I'm in the same boat. They have almost 34 million in program expenses and see they pay out over 6 million in salaries.. 1.5 million in fundraising expenses.

I don't see any type proactive land acquisition and zero in federated campaigns but get over 2.7 mil in government grants.

It makes me think I chose the wrong path in life. I should have started a non-profit.

I'll be spending my money supporting Turkeys for Tomorrow.


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They paid money for that new logo?  Nice videography but a lot of people can do that cheap with a $600 camera.  Hope they didn't waste too much on it.
They seem to be focusing on hunter recruitment when the resource is in decline and they don't really address that.

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 09:11:55 AM
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Agree 100 %. I've been hunting for 50 years and spent 45 years in marketing, advertising and promotion.  This new logo is shameful. As soon as I saw the man bun guy it explained everything. Totally turned off! There is no need for a logo change, and what they are presenting is pure garbage. Becky needs replaced, a Regional NWTF guy told me She is trying to " put her stamp" on NWTF  .. this logo change will turn off the NWTF base ( primarily hunters) and will not attract "younger people and non-hunters " to the magnificent bird. Turkeys are not ducks!
Can we please have Rob back?

Quote from: Jimspur on February 26, 2021, 08:41:40 AM
My issue with the video is it seemed to be heavy on marketing and reinventing the brand and talking about how the logo appealed to younger hunters blah, blah, blah. I don't really give a crap about your 2nd grade looking logo. All the money they paid for this slick marketing BS could have benefited the wild turkey.

I want to know what percentage of money I donate is going to salaries, costs, etcetera, and how much is going to the wild turkey.

I am all for protecting the resource for future generations to come, I just don't want the bulk of my money going to marketing and advertising firms and corporate types that are making a living off of my dollar. I want my money helping turkeys. So instead of all this marketing BS, why not just come out and say hey - in the past some things were done that we don't feel were right but we have new leadership and are going to move in a new direction and want to earn your trust back. You lose me when you start talking about branding and creating a new logo that studies show appeals to a younger audience blah, blah, blah.

Now I only watched 21 minutes of the video so maybe they touched on these points. If they did then someone can correct me.

Yes sir! Solid questions that need solid answers on where the money actually goes is what's needed instead of some effeminate guy attempting to appeal to who knows what. This is the business world they're looking to entice not some junior high school get together. I'm all for an individual's right to look like they want but I know that you only get one shot at a first impression. FAIL.

Quote from: Bonefishbill on May 10, 2021, 10:51:25 AM

Quote from: Bowguy on February 25, 2021, 09:11:55 AM
Supposed to be about marketing. I'm sorry but I believe men should be men. If I was on a job and some guy wearing a man bun started talking I'd just not be interested in what he was saying . I wish him no harm but I'd stay away. They're strategy is working great. I turned away from video

Agree 100 %. I've been hunting for 50 years and spent 45 years in marketing, advertising and promotion.  This new logo is shameful. As soon as I saw the man bun guy it explained everything. Totally turned off! There is no need for a logo change, and what they are presenting is pure garbage. Becky needs replaced, a Regional NWTF guy told me She is trying to " put her stamp" on NWTF  .. this logo change will turn off the NWTF base ( primarily hunters) and will not attract "younger people and non-hunters " to the magnificent bird. Turkeys are not ducks!
Can we please have Rob back?

Bring on Rob !

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After seeing this come up again I went back to watch the video again and sorry, I hate it even more now than I did then. I will never buy anything with that logo on it, looks like it was made by a drunken blind child on acid.

Sorry, I did not read the whole thread, but it sounds like NWTF went all Ducks Unlimited and that TFT is Delta Waterfowl.  Does that sum it up?

Money screws up the best of intentions.

Quote from: topnotch on February 25, 2021, 08:28:09 AM
Just watched for 3rd time the YouTube video, NWTF put out announcing their consulting company's suggested changes to logo and marketing.
Not sure I'm onboard with it.
Found it interesting some of the consultants were new to hunting.
Also noted no turkey mounts (seen ducks and deer) in background
Of presenters.
Not a fan of new logo :(

I'm amazed that anyone could watch that video once......much less three times.


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Quote from: Chordeiles on May 11, 2021, 02:37:22 AM

Quote from: topnotch on February 25, 2021, 08:28:09 AM
Just watched for 3rd time the YouTube video, NWTF put out announcing their consulting company's suggested changes to logo and marketing.
Not sure I'm onboard with it.
Found it interesting some of the consultants were new to hunting.
Also noted no turkey mounts (seen ducks and deer) in background
Of presenters.
Not a fan of new logo :(

I'm amazed that anyone could watch that video once......much less three times.


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3 times! I can't believe I watched for 21 minutes! Hahaha!

NWTF still getting raked over the coals about the logo change on their Facebook posts.

I'm definitely not a fan of the logo, but I am a bit surprised about folks still bashing them for it months later. Looks like it was definitely a major mistake on their part and appears some folks won't be joining back up because of it.

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on May 26, 2021, 03:47:21 PM
NWTF still getting raked over the coals about the logo change on their Facebook posts.

I'm definitely not a fan of the logo, but I am a bit surprised about folks still bashing them for it months later. Looks like it was definitely a major mistake on their part and appears some folks won't be joining back up because of it.

For me it's not so much the logo change, but the money wasted on it and
"rebranding". This goes to show how tone-deaf they are to the real issues
that people have with them.

Quote from: Jimspur on May 28, 2021, 03:18:48 PM

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on May 26, 2021, 03:47:21 PM
NWTF still getting raked over the coals about the logo change on their Facebook posts.

I'm definitely not a fan of the logo, but I am a bit surprised about folks still bashing them for it months later. Looks like it was definitely a major mistake on their part and appears some folks won't be joining back up because of it.

For me it's not so much the logo change, but the money wasted on it and
"rebranding". This goes to show how tone-deaf they are to the real issues
that people have with them.

Perfectly stated!   :icon_thumright: