Just passing on my experience so take it easy on me. Shot one this morning at 43 yards with 2 1/4 7's. I do not like to shoot that far, but this was his third time coming back in and I was getting soaked in a rainstorm. First shot rolled him, second was flying (I think I missed), third shot connected and he went down. A 50 yard chase through the woods and a spur gash to the hand, I got my bird. I cannot understand what happened. I found 15 or so pellets in the breast and multiple hits to the head. Most pellets in the breast were half way through the meat some just under the skin. I skinned the head to satisfy my own curiosity and found 6 pellets. Many more pass throughs. I know many of you guys feel comfortable at 50 and 60 yard. Not out of my gun. No way.
OK. Let the beating commence.
Great information for those wanting to take 50-60yd shots. Even at 40-50 if you dont hit him just right you are in for a rodeo. Up to 40 yds and its "for sure kill distance". Guess i will take a beating with you on this one. :laugh:
P.S. What are those lot #'s and do you want to sell them. :z-guntootsmiley:
My personal belief is that patterning on paper in ideal conditions and using the same shell in a hunting environment without ideal conditions are two completely different situations and this is what many hunters are running into this year while afield. My beliefs is that the #7's just can't hold up the patterns in "all" hunting conditions. Throw in some wind and rain and those #7's just don't hold together and their patterns will diminish quickly.
bird
Yep...ya better send them to me, so I may dispose of them properly.
Quote from: bird on May 17, 2011, 02:02:29 PM
My personal belief is that patterning on paper in ideal conditions and using the same shell in a hunting environment without ideal conditions are two completely different situations and this is what many hunters are running into this year while afield. My beliefs is that the #7's just can't hold up the patterns in "all" hunting conditions. Throw in some wind and rain and those #7's just don't hold together and their patterns will diminish quickly.
bird
Excellant point. What can be done on paper is much more difficult in the field. I have had pattern problems with 6's as well in adverse conditions in the midwest. High wind, rain, etc.
Then what are your takes on TSS? We are shooting #8 and #9 shot in our loads.
Quote from: sugarray on May 17, 2011, 02:08:39 PM
Then what are your takes on TSS? We are shooting #8 and #9 shot in our loads.
Dont have any experience with that..
I guess I will eat some crow. I always say I won't shoot at 45 yards, and I thought he was 45 when I shot. I bought into the hype, ran it through my head and made a bad choice. Won't happen again. I just can't figure how all these claims of birds at 50, 60, and 70 are true. Or are we just not hearing about all the ones that got away.
Lot #300525 and there are two shells left. Bought two boxes. One for patterning and the other, well, you know.
Quote from: jfair on May 17, 2011, 02:20:12 PM
I guess I will eat some crow. I always say I won't shoot at 45 yards, and I thought he was 45 when I shot. I bought into the hype, ran it through my head and made a bad choice. Won't happen again. I just can't figure how all these claims of birds at 50, 60, and 70 are true. Or are we just not hearing about all the ones that got away.
Lot #300525 and there are two shells left. Bought two boxes. One for patterning and the other, well, you know.
Yea i think you are right, the only stories we hear about those long shots are the successful ones. Ive heard guys talk about killing turkeys at 50+ yards with lead and there is no telling how many turkeys have been lost at that distance with lead. Oh well, thats a fun story to tell, good luck with the rest of the season and i would buy those shells if it were more but the shipping wouldnt be worth it for two i dont think. Happy hunting :fud:
I'll buy the last two.
Well I am not for the 7s either. Traded a box for Mag Blends. Never even patterned them but just could not bring myself to shoot them. When I bought them I just wanted to see what they would do, pattern wise. Bird brought up excellent points about weather conditions and such small shot. Stuff I knew but just never thought about, thanks. If that is what people want to shoot then more power to them. Not taking a jab but a lot of people that have talked the hype up on them have posted more pictures of patterns and not many of birds on the ground. I shot the 6s this year and was happy with the results but I think, if the patterns are good, that I will be switching to mag blends next April.
yeah you dont hear about the miss and birds that got away.. Ive ran into a few guys who told be about a 56 and 65yd kills with the cheap remington nitro lead #5's... but later in conversation the one guy mentioned how he'd missed a few times early in the week on other birds.. getting lucky happens with any shell and at long range theres no shell thats going to give garentees
all hevi can offer is good pattern with better than lead energy.. not 100% kills or necessarily much longer "appropriate" range. I trust my Hevi but Im not about to start flinging shells at 50 and 60 just because i can get shot out there.. let me tell you i trust them at 30 and 40 though
shot my bird at 33yds this year with hevi 7's and he was DEAD no flop, no wing beat, no movement... took at least 50-60 pellets the head and neck. Also like the Megblends they patterned really even for me
Quote from: jfair on May 17, 2011, 01:37:08 PM
Just passing on my experience so take it easy on me. Shot one this morning at 43 yards with 2 1/4 7's. I do not like to shoot that far, but this was his third time coming back in and I was getting soaked in a rainstorm. First shot rolled him, second was flying (I think I missed), third shot connected and he went down. A 50 yard chase through the woods and a spur gash to the hand, I got my bird. I cannot understand what happened. I found 15 or so pellets in the breast and multiple hits to the head. Most pellets in the breast were half way through the meat some just under the skin. I skinned the head to satisfy my own curiosity and found 6 pellets. Many more pass throughs. I know many of you guys feel comfortable at 50 and 60 yard. Not out of my gun. No way.
OK. Let the beating commence.
Just my $0.02, take it for what it is worth; but I bet if you were shooting #4 or #5Pb the bird would have stayed down and not tried to escape. Admittedly I am a big fan of using #4 and#5Pb for all of my turkey hunting. The Merriams gobbler I shot on 04/19 was the longest shot I have ever taken, 42 yards. I used Winchester® Supreme® 1 5/16oz of #4 (20ga). Necropsy revealed 19 pellets in the head and neck. Bird was dead before his beak hit the dirt!
The problem with Pb #4 #5 is the lack of density in the pattern. Yes, they will hit as hard or harder. But you get greater density of patterns with #6 and #7 HS.
It's good you're in decent shape to catch that gobbler. What type of sights do you have on your gun? In my 20 ga. and 12 ga. the farthest shot with 7's has been at 48 yards and all birds have flopped once or twice and died right there. I love Hevi-13 7's and have complete confidence in them. From the hits he took he must have been one tough bird!
Quote from: LaBiologist on May 17, 2011, 03:11:53 PMThe problem with Pb #4 #5 is the lack of density in the pattern. Yes, they will hit as hard or harder. But you get greater density of patterns with #6 and #7 HS.
Your argument is certainly true. I realize one of my 20ga turkey guns is an anomaly, in that it patterns #4Pb very evenly; but only with a Swarm™ .555" choke. My other two 20ga guns prefer #5Pb or #6 Remington® Hevi•Shot®.
I just hope you guys take all the back luck :lol: .
In 2 years with the 7s I have killed 4 birds at 40-45 yards and 1 at 52.
Saying that though every bird was killed in hunting conditions with no rain and very little if any wind.
Quote from: WyoHunter on May 17, 2011, 03:28:35 PM
It's good you're in decent shape to catch that gobbler. What type of sights do you have on your gun? In my 20 ga. and 12 ga. the farthest shot with 7's has been at 48 yards and all birds have flopped once or twice and died right there. I love Hevi-13 7's and have complete confidence in them. From the hits he took he must have been one tough bird!
I have a simmons scope on the gun. I understand the operator error part, maybe, it felt like a good shot. I thought I was in good shape til after that run. He was pretty shaken and not at full speed. I thought about throwing up once or twice after the fight. :P My first dive at him got a spur in the right hand and a fist full tail feathers in the left. I hate to even say this, but thank the Lord for that large stick that happend to lay next to me. Again, I understand lots have had good luck with the 7's. Just obviously function different from my gun somehow. I was getting 240 in 10" at 40 yards. It looks to me that the majority of shot hit him, just didn't work in this situation. I had no shot below 1/2 way down the breast.
I am not overly impressed as well, I have killed a few with theses shells and everyone flopped alot more than i figured they would, not that means much. The gobblers I shot with win xtended range have hit them with alot more athority but dont have the good numbers the 7s put up. I will either be shooting mag blends or win xtendeds next year. Just dont like the 1020 fps with 7s.
i never jumped on the 7's band wagon. i have seen how they penatrate cardboard to many times at 40 yards to be satisfied. #6's for me everytime
I am so glad that people are starting to see the light about hevi 7s. Me and a couple of other guys who talked bad about them were getting blasted. I know they pattern good but cardboard and turkey necks are 2 different things. I think I am gonna try the win xtd 6s. Anyone know how they perform on TURKEYS.
Quote from: duckaholic25 on May 17, 2011, 09:36:18 PM
I am so glad that people are starting to see the light about hevi 7s. Me and a couple of other guys who talked bad about them were getting blasted. I know they pattern good but cardboard and turkey necks are 2 different things. I think I am gonna try the win xtd 6s. Anyone know how they perform on TURKEYS.
Like this.....all winchester XR 6s. Some from the last three seasons. I like em. Never shot the Hevi 7s so I cant bash them. Have shot the Hevi 2 oz 6s.....missed two, and killed 2 with them. Went back to Winchesters. They hammer them. The jake in the picture with my Dad was at 40 to 45 yards running. Shot him with my old turkey gun Beretta 390 with Kicks 660...we counted 25 pellet holes in his head and neck. He was running straight away and just hit the ground at the shot, no flopping.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture221.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture308.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture211.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture518.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture520.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture048-1.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/Picture074.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/287.jpg)
Well it ain't the 7's that is causing your issues.
All you got to do is take the time to find the right choke for your gun and know how to shoot once you find the right choke. Know where to aim and how to hold steady and those 7's will kill as far as they will pattern. Anyone that tells you different is lying to you.
Every one has different experiences. The man said he was getting 240 in 10" at 40, sounds like good enough choke to me. I am shooting tss #8. Had occasion to shoot a jake this year, running at 45 angle at 40 yds. DRT, the shot was a little far back, I recovered 21 pellets, some in the breast just past the breast bone. I did not notice any pass thru's especially in the breast area. Heavi 7's are too small for me. :begging:
He had pellets in the head! If they would have been HS #5's he wouldn't have had to chase him!
All I can say is that if you got a gun and choke that will shoot any of the Hevi-13 #7 loads whether it be 3" or 3.5" loads at 40yds to the tune of around 240-300 shot on avg in a 10" and you center that pattern over the waddles of a bird at 45yds, there is going to be no ands ifs or buts that he will die and not go anywhere period. The problem lies when you the operator don't center that pattern. It's that simple regardless if your shooting the Hevi-13 #6 loads or #5's or if you are shooting TSS loads it don't matter. The same problem has been said about the TSS loads. All it takes is putting a perfect product into the wrong hands from someone that swears they did everything right when they most certainly didn't. Now that's not directed at anyone, but it is the truth. It's takes both the shooter and the load to have a winning outcome and that is all I am trying to say.
I have personally seen firsthand what the 3" 2oz #7 loads will do to a big gobbler at 45yds. He was dead before he hit the ground. No running off or flying off period. The bird was toasted.
Again I will show those doubters that think these 7's are too dang small to possibly put the hurtin on a big 24lb bird. It just can't be. Well they probably still will have their doubts.
This bird was probably at least 45yds.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0066_Small_2_.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0070_Small_2_.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0073_Small_.jpg)
Here's the opposite side of the bird. Now what more could you want these shot to do?
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0069_Small_.jpg)
Now here's the side the bird was shot from. I aimed right about on the wattles. You can plainly see this is on the right side of the bird. I'm showing you this one so you know fo certain the picture above was the backside of the bird.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0058_Medium_.jpg)
Here's the whole 24lbs of that bird just so you can see the 7's did him in. That bird was weighed at the MO Dept of Conservation Office by 2 agents.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF0039_Medium_.jpg)
If that bird could talk, he would be saying I hate Hevi-13 #7's! :z-guntootsmiley:
Goblr77 on here has had the exact same results that I have had at about the same yardage and another one at a little over 50yds. Maybe he will post up some of his results. But he too smoked his birds with these loads. But again both of us have found the right chokes for our guns with these loads. I honestly can't see how Hevi-13 #6's would have killed them any deader.
ILIKEHEVI, I know you get very worked up about defending 7's. I'm just telling everyone what happened in my case. The pellets did not pass through the breast meat. In fact some were just under the skin. To me, the picture you posted shows the same. Clearly the pellets shown under the skin did not come from the other side but are barely under the skin at entrance. There is no damage to the meat behind them. Or are you suggesting that all those pellets passed through the breast and just happened to stop before exiting the skin on the other side? The neck of my turkey looked the same as what you show. A bloody mess. There were plenty of hits, some pass throughs and some that did not pass through.
I have seen the claims of others on this board. I cannot defend myself against operator error. Only I know how my shot was placed. Regardless of how bad you believe my shot was, there were many pellets that hit that bird and thay did not pass through. I can tell you that it is a fact that they pellets will not pass through the breast at 45 yards. I know that for sure. Again if you are happy with them, shoot away. These are my facts.
It was raining and 55 degrees. If this affects them, well thats half of my season.
In all honesty..if you guys are having a hard time harvesting turkeys with 3 or 3.5 hevi shot out a x-full to xxxx-full turkey choke, regardless of the shot size, that is kind of embarrasing. If you guys would have hunted in the days when all we had were factory full and mod barrels and shooting lead 4's,5's,and 6's. I'm not sure you guys would have done too well.. Complaining about some of the most high tech equipment available on the market today is kinda silly..having a problem with a gun is one thing and this site is great for that but going out in the woods with a high tech gun you have patterned and know what it is capable of and then having problems with cleanly harvesting a turkey..there is only once place to look for the problem..in the mirror.
23" barrel on mine. Mine were not even close to passing through. So you also think the pellets passed all the way through the breast and stopped just under the skin on the far side?
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 08:09:56 AM
In all honesty..if you guys are having a hard time harvesting turkeys with 3 or 3.5 hevi shot out a x-full to xxxx-full turkey choke, regardless of the shot size, that is kind of embarrasing. If you guys would have hunted in the days when all we had were factory full and mod barrels and shooting lead 4's,5's,and 6's. I'm not sure you guys would have done too well.. Complaining about some of the most high tech equipment available on the market today is kinda silly..
You are way off base. I too started hunting with the 4's and 5's. Point of the post obviously evaded you.
The point you guys are trying to make is that Hevi 7's will not cleanly harvest turkeys at an ethical distance which is absolutely ridiculous.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 18, 2011, 08:19:36 AM
Quote from: jfair on May 18, 2011, 08:14:51 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 08:09:56 AM
In all honesty..if you guys are having a hard time harvesting turkeys with 3 or 3.5 hevi shot out a x-full to xxxx-full turkey choke, regardless of the shot size, that is kind of embarrasing. If you guys would have hunted in the days when all we had were factory full and mod barrels and shooting lead 4's,5's,and 6's. I'm not sure you guys would have done too well.. Complaining about some of the most high tech equipment available on the market today is kinda silly..
You are way off base. I too started hunting with the 4's and 5's. Point of the post obviously evaded you.
As did most of us here it seems.
jfair,
Yes to your question. ILIKE's picture clearly showed passthrus to me and looked exactly like what I've seen when I've had them (although with different size shot). I think the 23" barrel may make more of a difference than previously thought, even more so on a pulled shot where fewer pellets strike.
One thing I always liked about hunting with lead in the "good old days", you could flat pepper a turkey and still wouldn't make hamburger of the breast! :toothy12:
I know what you mean..i broke a tooth eating a turkey this year that was shot with hevi 13..turkeys were definately more edible back in the day.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 18, 2011, 08:34:51 AM
I hate the intent and meaning lost in text on forums.
"As did most of us here it seems." Meant I've turkey hunted since starting in '81. Much has changed but I still miss occasionally.
I understood..I was patterning turkey guns in the seventy's and when i see what the guns i have now will do..its comical to hear people complaining about whether the equipment we have will harvest turkeys efficiently. Folks are shooting 45+ plus yards and making marginal shots and the problem to them... must be the equipment. Making excuses about the equipment after making a marginal shot is inexperience or immaturity.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 18, 2011, 08:34:51 AM
I hate the intent and meaning lost in text on forums.
"As did most of us here it seems." Meant I've turkey hunted since starting in '81. Much has changed but I still miss ocassionally.
I understood. This year has not been one of my best. Number one, I finished up a nuclear engineering degree last week at age 35. Much easier when you are young with no kids. Point being I just really started hunting this week, two weeks into the season. This board has been very interesting to me, as it has filled in the missed hunting time. Number two, this crazy thing happens to me yesterday. I just got way too far caught up in the hype. I shot at 45 yards which is a mistake I always was proud of not making.
I do miss the times when it was just pick up the gun and go. Maybe this is in my future. At 30 yards it makes no difference in what you are shooting. You don't have to run after them either. :)
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 08:42:06 AM
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 18, 2011, 08:34:51 AM
I hate the intent and meaning lost in text on forums.
"As did most of us here it seems." Meant I've turkey hunted since starting in '81. Much has changed but I still miss occasionally.
I understood..I was patterning turkey guns in the seventy's and when i see what the guns i have now will do..its comical to hear people complaining about whether the equipment we have will harvest turkeys efficiently. Folks are shooting 45+ plus yards and making marginal shots and the problem to them... must be the equipment. Making excuses about the equipment after making a marginal shot is inexperience or immaturity.
Ehh. You caught me in the middle of my last post. I guess we then agree. Again point has seemed to miss the target. I am showing the facts, in my case, of what 7's accomplished. Take it as you will.
Jfair, Congratulations on your degree! That is impressive at 35 with a family to make the commitment and follow through. We take our turkey hunting a little too serious sometimes but congrats on an important accomplishment. :boon:
I finished up a nuclear engineering degree last week at age 35. Much easier when you are young with no kids.
You're the MAN, jfair. That's a huge accomplishment at any age.
I'm glad you got the bird even though you had to chase him. Turkey rodeos are some of my best hunting memories......lol
I am still a fan of the 7's, but you find the load that gives you confidence and kill em dead.
Thanks guys. Just so I am very clear on my point. I am not bashing the sevens. It is my own fault for shooting that far. It gave me some real world experience and testing. These are my results.
I've been in turkey rodeos with Hevi 6s, XR 5s, and various other types of shot. Have a friend that dropped a bird at 40yds this year with 3.5 lead #4s, but on his way to the bird he got up an ran away like nothing happened. Crap happens.....
To each his own..with lead i let the turkey get inside 30yds and with HTL i let the turkeys get inside 40yds. A slight misjudgement in yardage and im still ok. Limit out every year and 99 percent of the time the turkey rides home in the back of the truck without a fight. The stories i hear from hunters all over the country is that 40+ with lead and 45+ with HTL that is where the majority of birds are wounded, lost, or the rodeo starts. If a turkey is coming to you he can cover that last 5-10 yds in seconds..a little patience is all it takes. If hes not coming to ya..you didnt fool him.. :anim_25:
We should discuss all the birds that I've killed with #7 1/2 lead shot out to 40 yards that magically died. :D
I am more curious to know how many turkeys you have lost shooting 40+ yds with lead.. :o
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 10:34:30 AM
I am more curious to know how many turkeys you have lost shooting 40+ yds with lead.. :TrainWreck1: :o
The answer would be 0. All the misses (and I've had my share) have generally been within 20 yards and often closer.
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 10:56:24 AM
If you have lost 0 turkeys you havnt shot at many or you are not being honest.The number of turkeys that you shoot wound or have to chase down is much greater at 40yds with lead than it is at 30yds. Little common sense: At closer distance it's either a "for sure kill" or a "clean miss" which I prefer to shooting at marginal distances and losing turkeys which I see constantly being in the hunting business.
this gets so old.
At 50 yards with my setup he will be just as dead as he would be at 20 yards
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 10:56:24 AM
If you have lost 0 turkeys you havnt shot at many or you are not being honest.The number of turkeys that you shoot wound or have to chase down is much greater at 40yds with lead than it is at 30yds. Little common sense: At closer distance it's either a "for sure kill" or a "clean miss" which I prefer to shooting at marginal distances and losing turkeys which I see constantly being in the hunting business.
I agree with you completely. I'm just showing the opposite end of the spectrum where good ol' copperplated #7 1/2's have had no problems getting birds to bow their heads out to 40 yards and hair beyond. Granted, it hasn't been that many....maybe 10 birds total between 35 and 42 yards, but they all flopped their heads with just one shot and rode home with me. I wish I could say the same for some of the really close shots. :D Either way, a bad hit at 40 yards with hevi #7's probably wouldn't end any differently had the shooter been using #6's, #5's, #4's, and so on...
I take 2ounce6s opinion highly. That is why I am going to try the Mag blends for next year and on another topic about Fed 7s he brought up a good point about the wads that I knew but wasn't smart enough to think about, so I am going to now try mag blends in the 20 also. He knows his stuff, no matter what anyone else says on here I take his word as my own and I think you should too, imho.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 18, 2011, 11:38:22 AM
SP,
What was the barrel length on the gun you shot those 7.5 lead out of? Just curious. I've had to do some running on birds with #6s in lead at 40-45 yards at times. Shooter error, short barrel gun or not but it just didn't seem to have the punch needed. I know longer barrel guns always seemed to put toms down better with lead shot, even believed pumps shot harder that semi autos back in the day. I'd never have considered using 7.5s to tell the truth.
...
It was a 26" Inv+ BPS with a Comp-N-Choke XXXFull tube (I can't remember exactly what the constriction is) shooting the discontinued Federal 3-2-7.5's. I liked to keep my shots in the 25-30 yard range where I was most relaxed. When they would get inside of 20, my heart would start pounding, and it was hard to keep my knee steady. Even with adjustable sites, the tight choke and shaky knee didn't work well together. :D What's weird is that the longest shot I ever took with that load (42 yards - stepped off), folded a Texas Rio like he'd been hit with a truck.
If what your saying about those back rear pellets were true then the whole top of the breast would have had a lot more hits on that side which was the backside of the bird. The bird was shot on the right side and I showed that by looking at the feathers that were tore up in the picture. If the shot went through only clean meat and no blood and it is possible that the shot collected no feathers than yes that will happen and appear that way leading to what you said about those few shot.
All I'm saying is I was amazed at the devastation this shot caused at that distance. And I think most would agree with looking at those pictures.
You use what you think will work.
And to better back up what I said just above if the bird would have taken a pattern like this or close to it which is how my gun was shooting at the time by the way and taken that pattern more head on in which you are stating then you tell me what both sides of the breast would have looked like. The backside(left side) would have been tore up with a lot more shot than I hit the bird with no doubt about it.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00185.jpg)
I've had #7's blow completely through the breast like that and not pull feathers or cause much bruising, also.
I'll add no bird that I shoot will be bad enough to walk away from that pattern at 45yds. It won't happen. Period.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 18, 2011, 06:42:53 PM
I've had #7's blow completely through the breast like that and not pull feathers or cause much bruising, also.
:z-winnersmiley:
I'll blow that 10" from that pattern above so you can better imagine what both sides of the front of the breast would have looked like if I indeed shot that bird headon and in the wattles in which I didn't. But proving my point.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00316.jpg)
And no I'm not worked up at least yet anyway lol. What happen to you I don't know, but anyone on here who puts a pattern like the one I showed over the neck of a bird at 45yds and centers it the outcome will be exactly the same every single time. It's that simple.
The hevi 7's steam roller is in operation.. :D Ive heard of beating a dead horse :deadhorse:..but y'all are beating a dead turkey and on top of that y'all are dissecting the son of gun :newmascot:..That's funny! :TooFunny:
I'm just curious but does anyone on here work for Environmental Metal..I bet they dont have a sales person with the kind fervor we got going here..Some of the folks on here need to go to work for them and slap people everytime they want to change up the shells. :fire:
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 18, 2011, 06:59:51 PM
And no I'm not worked up at least yet anyway lol. What happen to you I don't know, but anyone on here who puts a pattern like the one I showed over the neck of a bird at 45yds and centers it the outcome will be exactly the same every single time. It's that simple.
That was my opinion prior to this happening also. I was on the bandwagon talking them up to my friends, showing off the pattern papers. Looks devestating on paper, there was no way a bird could get away. I knew this post would come to this, he pulled the shot, operator error, didn't hold in the right spot, and so on. I'll be the first to admit, it is hard to believe an opinion when it is not your own. I know what I did. I have been turkey hunting a long time. I saw for myself the penetration into the breast. The shots I found under the skin were just that, under the skin. The picture you show may very well be from the opposite side. Just seems funny they passed all the way through the meat and then stop right there. Looks like four of them. My opinion is what it is. My opinion. This is what the board is for, I think.
And you know your right. You apprently seem like a very smart guy and if the outcome you had didn't work for you then by all means go to something else. Who is to say what actually happen on that bird. Maybe he was the exception to the rule for all I know.
And good luck to you whatever you choose to shoot. I hope you don't ever have this same outcome in the future.
Quote from: jfair on May 18, 2011, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 18, 2011, 06:59:51 PM
And no I'm not worked up at least yet anyway lol. What happen to you I don't know, but anyone on here who puts a pattern like the one I showed over the neck of a bird at 45yds and centers it the outcome will be exactly the same every single time. It's that simple.
That was my opinion prior to this happening also. I was on the bandwagon talking them up to my friends, showing off the pattern papers. Looks devestating on paper, there was no way a bird could get away. I knew this post would come to this, he pulled the shot, operator error, didn't hold in the right spot, and so on. I'll be the first to admit, it is hard to believe an opinion when it is not your own. I know what I did. I have been turkey hunting a long time. I saw for myself the penetration into the breast. The shots I found under the skin were just that, under the skin. The picture you show may very well be from the opposite side. Just seems funny they passed all the way through the meat and then stop right there. Looks like four of them. My opinion is what it is. My opinion. This is what the board is for, I think.
jfair,
I agree with you. I may not be done with Hevi-13's but I am done with the 7's. They pattern great on paper but I think they lack something when it comes to adverse weather conditions. I may try the 5's or even look the Winchester XR's myself.
bird
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 18, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
And good luck to you whatever you choose to shoot. I hope you don't ever have this same outcome in the future.
Yep, good luck to you also. I do apprecitate your thoughts, if we all agree, then there is no need for this board.
By the way, I'm eating turkey nuggets as we speak, so it's not all that bad. ;)
I was just thinking that turkey is dead is he not..early in this deal you said you bought into the hype ran it through your mind and made a bad choice and shot anyway at 45 in adverse conditions..and the son of gun is dead..im not sure you could ask for anymore out of your equipment. Congratulations on a great turkey hunting story and the beginning of your new future with an impressive degree. Pass the ketchup...
I shot 4 birds this year, 1 with Winchester XR, 1 with Hevi #7 and 2 with Old white # 6, killed all 4 but they all had 1 thing in 9ommon and that was all had a few pellets that did not penetrate much deeper than the skin and all we're shot between 25 and 40 yards but in the end result they were in ethical range and - knew what and how my guns shot those loads and the end result was 4 dead turkeys. I'm still not completely confident in the Hevi #7 But they will kill with anything else in ethical ranges and there are plenty of folks on OG to back that up.
The shot that did not penetrate is probably at the rear of the shot string. The front shot hits the bird so hard with its awesomeness that it accelerates the bird's body up to a whopping 1000fps. The remaining pellets are left to effectively hit the bird at maybe 100fps, because that fat, feathered piece of Swiss cheese is now supersonic. I've seen the dead bodies fly across fields a hundred times. Mystery solved. :police:
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 18, 2011, 03:05:19 AM
Goblr77 on here has had the exact same results that I have had at about the same yardage and another one at a little over 50yds. Maybe he will post up some of his results. But he too smoked his birds with these loads. But again both of us have found the right chokes for our guns with these loads. I honestly can't see how Hevi-13 #6's would have killed them any deader.
Here's two of 'em I shot with the 2.25 oz 7's at extended distances and decided to dissect. These birds were shot with two different rigs, both consistently putting up numbers over 300. I have no complaints with the Hevi 6's either but my setups average 80-100 more hits with the 7's and I feel more confident with the denser pattern. To each his own.
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This was the first year that I shot heavy 7s 3.5 inch.... I was a little skeptical with the 7s .... I shot my first bird with them at 42 yards and it hammered him , I am definetely going to use them next year.. he didnt hardly even twitch...
Quote from: goblr77 on May 18, 2011, 10:20:47 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 18, 2011, 03:05:19 AM
Goblr77 on here has had the exact same results that I have had at about the same yardage and another one at a little over 50yds. Maybe he will post up some of his results. But he too smoked his birds with these loads. But again both of us have found the right chokes for our guns with these loads. I honestly can't see how Hevi-13 #6's would have killed them any deader.
Here's two of 'em I shot with the 2.25 oz 7's at extended distances and decided to dissect. These birds were shot with two different rigs, both consistently putting up numbers over 300. I have no complaints with the Hevi 6's either but my setups average 80-100 more hits with the 7's and I feel more confident with the denser pattern. To each his own.
Thanks for posting them Myles. And that has been my observation as well vs the 6's. I too like having the extra pattern density of 80 to 100 more shot when I am aiming at the neck on a bird. I feel 100% confident with the 7's even at longer yardages especially if I am packing my 835. A bird at 50yds would be toast and I have no doubt whatsoever it would be that way if one hung up at even 55yds.
I agree with 2ounce6 all the way. When you have a gun that patterns with 200+ in a 10in circle @ 40yds..the margin for error is very little..when there is a an issue with harvesting the turkey cleanly within reasonable ranges..the issue is the shooter and not the gun. If you want a tight patterning gun the shooter better have it together when he squeezes the trigger. The thinking that it must be the 7's is headed in the wrong direction. It is much more difficult at longer ranges to be able to tell exactly where you are holding unless you have a red dot or scope and then the further the distance the more things can go wrong..adverse weather, wind, limbs, shooter apprehension, etc. I see allot of long distance shots taken at birds walking away which even makes it more difficult because the animal is moving and the shooter gets anxious. Holding beads or iron sights on a turkeys neck and head.. which is moving.. is difficult at 45+.
Its very similar to archery hunting for me..sure i can shoot decent groups at 50 to 60yds but when it comes to harvesting mature whitetails way too many things can go wrong if a man is taking those kind of shots at a deer. I shoot mature whitetails at 30yds or less and make sure its a "for sure kill "situation. Im just going on experience and what i have seen happen in the woods. To each his own..i know folks that shoot at turkeys in the 50+ and whitetails at 50+ as well and they do allot of missing and wounding. Folks can do what ever they want as long as they dont do it on the ground i lease.
Taking advice about guns and which combinations of chokes, shells, etc pattern the best on paper is all good and well and very productive. But you might want to be careful about who you are taking hunting advice from. :anim_25:
Quote from: 2ounce6s on May 19, 2011, 07:10:32 AM
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 18, 2011, 10:19:22 PM
The shot that did not penetrate is probably at the rear of the shot string. The front shot hits the bird so hard with its awesomeness that it accelerates the bird's body up to a whopping 1000fps. The remaining pellets are left to effectively hit the bird at maybe 100fps, because that fat, feathered piece of Swiss cheese is now supersonic. I've seen the dead bodies fly across fields a hundred times. Mystery solved. :police:
Funny stuff SP :toothy12:.
One thing I noticed about ILIKE's patterns, if that shot was pulled a tad at 40 yards then the pellet strike total on a turkeys head dramatically falls off. Not that hard to pull a shot 10" or more at those distances in my experience. :(
Trust me that bird felt the full effect of that load. That's one thing I like about the 870's over the 835's is that they have a tendency to shoot deadnut with the factory bead. If I put that bead on my 870 on a birds neck, he is toast.
And just so you know the 10" patterns are the working bees of the pattern core when shooting at farther distances. Some may like a nice even 30" pattern but I worry more about a nice even 20" pattern at 40yds. If you can't center that 20" pattern on the neck of a turkey at 40yds you really have no business shooting at a turkey in the first place.
Quote from: link=topic=9942.msg116341#msg116341 date=1305817160
Quote from: davisd9 on May 17, 2011, 02:43:26 PMBird brought up excellent points about weather conditions and such small shot.
It's not the size of the shot, it's the energy it hits with, and the way it's weight/area (density) cuts through the wind, rain, or whatever.
I think size #7 in 12g/cc shot going only 1090 at the muzzle (Hevi-13) carries too little energy for my tastes. On the other hand #7s in 15g/cc shot going 1100 at the muzzle (Fed Hwt) carries WAY more lethal energy than lead #4s or Hevi-13 #5s. TSS #8s carry more penetration energy still.
Lumping all "small" shot into the same boat is like lumping Hevishot with Steel.... They are totally different animals.
This is exactly my point .... Add some wind and some other weather factors into the mix in a real world hunting environment I believe that the Hevi-13 #7's going only 1090fps just doesn't cut it and loses allot of energy if it has to buck any kind of wind at all. Thus the reason why I myself am going to switch to something else either in the Hevi-13 lineup or another brand that has the ability to carry more energy in adverse weather conditions.
Hey if you have blue bird skies and no to little wind then Hevi-13 #7 are the juice but when you have to hits the woods and especially the open fields on a nasty windy day then I believe your better have another load to fall back on.
bird
That happened to me this year. I pulled a little and I hit the bird in the upper part of the wing. The shot broke his backbone, wing bone, tore up both lungs, and the majority of the shot exited the other side.
43 yards. Nitro H510C 4x5x7, Browning Silver 28" barrel. That sold me on the Nitro 4x5x7. I found one 4, one 5 and four 7 shot that didnt make it thorugh the breast on the other side. I average 250 in a 10" circle.
I'd think that environmental factors, such as heavy crosswinds, would wreak more havoc on the pattern center than drain energy levels of the individual pellets. They're already facing a 700+ mph headwind coming out of the barrel, anyway. There should still be plenty of energy at 40 yards...the shot is just redirected a little off course. IMO...
This year we put 11 longbeards on the ground with the Hevi #7, This bird was shot by my son with his 11-87 sps-t and the 3" 2 oz load. The bird was at 43 yds. There were several in the breast that were in the off side of the meat. This was a bang and flop shot.
I am sold on the #7'a
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/slickr1/neckshot.jpg)
There are some results for you..hmmmm..might not be the shells after all.. :laugh: pay attention folks. If a man can't kill turkeys with that load..switching shells won't help. :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on May 19, 2011, 10:13:55 AM
And just so you know the 10" patterns are the working bees of the pattern core when shooting at farther distances. Some may like a nice even 30" pattern but I worry more about a nice even 20" pattern at 40yds. If you can't center that 20" pattern on the neck of a turkey at 40yds you really have no business shooting at a turkey in the first place.
x2
Quote from: Longshanks on May 19, 2011, 01:11:25 PM
There are some results for you..hmmmm..might not be the shells after all.. :laugh: pay attention folks. If a man can't kill turkeys with that load..switching shells won't help. :z-guntootsmiley:
So then your point is... do not post anything negative about the 7's or else? Listen, I am not trying to start any debates. These are the facts in my case. If I can't show my results without it being my fault, then there is no point being on this board. I have been turkey hunting for 20+ years. I have killed 20+ birds. I know this pales in comparison to alot of you here, but have never shot more than one bird in a year. This was the limit here in PA up until a couple years ago, just never bought that second tag. I have never shot at a bird I did not get. Never wounded any. Shot Federal 6's in lead for many years. Never chased a bird before this. My shot was true. Believe it or not. Shoot what you want, I'm done here.
OK guys.... Keep it friendly.
jfair you are more than welcome to have an opinion about the #7's and your opinion is welcomed here.
I believe this topic has pretty much ran its course and its time to move onto something else.
bird
I dont really understand all you guys saying that hevi 7s are money every time out to 40 yards. Well pb 5s are money everytime out to 40 yards too, so why are you paying 3 times as much for product that is only just as good and acting like they are the best thing since sliced bread???
Quote from: duckaholic25 on May 19, 2011, 03:48:13 PM
I dont really understand all you guys saying that hevi 7s are money every time out to 40 yards. Well pb 5s are money everytime out to 40 yards too, so why are you paying 3 times as much for product that is only just as good and acting like they are the best thing since sliced bread???
most here like to limit their range to where they can no longer get 100 pellets in a 10" circle. Most lead #5s are not going to get 100 in a 10" circle at 40 yards.
I pay 3 times as much because that gives me much more room for error in the case I misjudged the distance a bird is at.
I do not see how this is the shooters fault if he skinned the neck and head and found pellets and holes....the shooter did his part. I have not missed or crippled birds with this stuff and have killed a few with it. These shells put up incredible patterns on paper but are not best things out there. You cant tell me that of the thousands and thousands of shells that come of the line that everyone is perfect... shoot and like what you want but dont try to run anyone off because they dont like or have had a bad experience with a product and i hate to break it to you but nothing is 100% everytime
I agree with Bird,at times the #7's have shined .
And it's perfectly ok that we disagree here. There's going to be people who swear by 7's and then there's going to be people that don't. And some of those that don't probably will refuse to even try them in the first place because of their belief they are too small. I was one of them, but I listened to reloader on here about what he said about pattern density and penetration is what kills a turkey and not knockdown power. I think he again is right on the money. The 7's in my honest opinion will still have the zip as far as they will pattern from what I have seen. Put that center core on a neck of a bird and I believe if you do that you will enjoy the outcome. Most on here do agree with that who have tried them and are amazed with the killing power even at longer ranges.
I reworded that.
Thats the most amazing shell i have ever shot a turkey with in 35 years of turkey hunting. :boon: The Mag Blends and Hevi 6's are fine shells too so JFair i would just shoot whatever you like and go after the next turkey. :gobble:
Hevi shot 7's just gave me a headache so i shoot 6's now.
Bird is right, this has more than run its course. That is what I meant by "I'm done here". Read the original post, I thought I would add my opinion on the penetration of the 7's in a real world situation. These are my opinions on how they worked for me. Regardless of how well my shot was placed, the pellets that hit the bird are what I am presenting. I was just reading product reviews for the Federal lead with flight control wad on Cabelas. Seems as though the concensus is these are for sure kills at 60 and 70 yards. I just don't believe everything I read.
Quote from: Longshanks on May 18, 2011, 08:18:22 AM
The point you guys are trying to make is that Hevi 7's will not cleanly harvest turkeys at an ethical distance which is absolutely ridiculous.
what is an ethical distance???
sounds like people need to learn how to read a rangefinder
and learn to hunt
Quote from: Gobble! on May 19, 2011, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: duckaholic25 on May 19, 2011, 03:48:13 PM
I dont really understand all you guys saying that hevi 7s are money every time out to 40 yards. Well pb 5s are money everytime out to 40 yards too, so why are you paying 3 times as much for product that is only just as good and acting like they are the best thing since sliced bread???
most here like to limit their range to where they can no longer get 100 pellets in a 10" circle. Most lead #5s are not going to get 100 in a 10" circle at 40 yards.
I pay 3 times as much because that gives me much more room for error in the case I misjudged the distance a bird is at.
both of my 835's will get 125-150 hits at 40yds with Federal or Winchester lead #5's everyday of the week