Im finally getting serious about pattering my gun and trying different loads and chokes. i have sbe and am a copper plated lead guy. i see guys putting 100s of bbs in a 10 inch at 40 yds and i do realize these are hevi shot or tss sometimes. im lucky to get just 100 (i have yet to put 100 in the 10 inch) with 5s and was wondering if this is as good as it gets with lead. im shooting 3.5 inch longbeards and grand slams number 5 shot, carlsons longbeard xr choke .650, and a jebs headhunter .650. those are my test subjects so far. next week im flinging 6s to see the difference. so far im pretty disappointed in the choke performance for the prices.
Curious what "good" would be considered with those rounds and shot size. from what I've read i don't think 150 to 180 in the 10 inch at 40 is out of the question or did i miss something?
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I shoot 3.5 #5 double x. My patterns seem to be just at 100 or so pellets. My dads old mossberg with longbeard 3in 6s will put close to 150 in the 10. Just too tight for me.
I think your numbers sound pretty accurate for lead.
Those are some very tight chokes. Try a .665 or higher and see what happens. Or try #6 shot with the chokes you've got.
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175 to 200 pellets is very doable with longbeards 3.5", #5, 12 gauge load. That's at 40 yards.
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Quote from: rgref522 on June 09, 2020, 09:17:05 PM
im shooting 3.5 inch longbeards and grand slams number 5 shot
The 3.5" longbeards also come in 2 1/8oz 1050fps and 2oz 1200fps loads. Could make a difference in your pattern depending on which you're shooting.
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standard lead the 100 pellet mark is probably tops, longbeards should do much better, but are stupid tight up close!
How big is the piece of paper you're shooting at? It sounds like a dumb question but your POA/POI could be off and you may not be getting all of your pattern on the paper.
If that's not the issue, I would try different loads. Long beard XR's would probably be my first choice to try if you're set on lead loads. If you're not dead-set on lead, TSS 9's will get you about triple that 100 mark (if not higher) out of a 3" shell once you get it dialed in.
Quote from: redleg06 on June 10, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
How big is the piece of paper you're shooting at? It sounds like a dumb question but your POA/POI could be off and you may not be getting all of your pattern on the paper.
If that's not the issue, I would try different loads. Long beard XR's would probably be my first choice to try if you're set on lead loads. If you're not dead-set on lead, TSS 9's will get you about triple that 100 mark (if not higher) out of a 3" shell once you get it dialed in.
3x3 piece of paper, pattern appears evenly spread over the whole paper
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Is this this Mobil choke threads or the Crio Plus threads?
With 3.5" 2oz 5s longbeards in my 870 12 gauge, i average around 190 pellets in the 10 at a lasered 40 yards. Best i ever got with that was 204 pellets. 21" barrel and a jelly head .660 choke. My pattern density drops by about 10 pellets per shot after the first shot through a clean barrel, so you may want to deep clean your barrel.
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Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on June 10, 2020, 01:20:51 PM
Is this this Mobil choke threads or the Crio Plus threads?
mobil choke
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If it was me I would get the BlackMaxx turkey choke or the old Blackout turkey choke by Carlson's in .665. You don't need a $80 or $100 choke IMO. A $40 choke in the same constriction will do the same thing. I think you may be overchoked like posted earlier. 6's will probably put up a little higher numbers. Either will kill dead as you know, 5 or 6 if you have the pattern.
I know they are completely different guns, but my 870 shoots terrible patterns with 3.5" shells. I get much better patterns with 3" shell. I would also try opening the choke up some like others mentioned.
Also there have been quite a few issues lately with the Longbeards not wanting to pattern very well.
I know you said lead but you realize that you can down load a 2 3/4 TSS handload to around 1.5 oz and still probably match if not outperform longbeards and not have to worry about consistency.
Quote from: Gooserbat on June 10, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
I know you said lead but you realize that you can down load a 2 3/4 TSS handload to around 1.5 oz and still probably match if not outperform longbeards and not have to worry about consistency.
could you expand, the shell size is something im still reading on. i have always thought the bigger shell the more shot, the more powder, the bigger the better. now realizing that's not the case.
assume everything equal (shot size, same pattern, etc) besides shell size and compare a 3 vs 3.5 inch shell. do they carry the same knockdown power at equal distances? or does the 3 inch have less knockdown being smaller? what else is comprised if anything. i realize this is kind of a beginner question but i think im victim to old timers old school train of thought.
Ryan
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Quote from: rgref522 on June 10, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on June 10, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
I know you said lead but you realize that you can down load a 2 3/4 TSS handload to around 1.5 oz and still probably match if not outperform longbeards and not have to worry about consistency.
could you expand, the shell size is something im still reading on. i have always thought the bigger shell the more shot, the more powder, the bigger the better. now realizing that's not the case.
assume everything equal (shot size, same pattern, etc) besides shell size and compare a 3 vs 3.5 inch shell. do they carry the same knockdown power at equal distances? or does the 3 inch have less knockdown being smaller? what else is comprised if anything. i realize this is kind of a beginner question but i think im victim to old timers old school train of thought.
Ryan
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If you look at the velocity printed on most shell boxes you'll notice the 3" usually has a higher velocity than the 3.5. 3.5 will have more shot but there is a trade off, you can only get so much powder in a shell hull. The faster velocity will have more penetration than the same size pellet at slower velocity but not enough to worry about. 20 years ago a consistent even 100 pellet pattern at 40 yards was plenty still is.And the number of holes in the paper at 40 won't make a bit of difference when you miss them at 20 because the pattern is the size of a baseball.
Quote from: LaLongbeard on June 11, 2020, 11:13:26 AM
.And the number of holes in the paper at 40 won't make a bit of difference when you miss them at 20 because the pattern is the size of a baseball.
Exactly! The average turkey hunter is much better off shooting a load that will be a bit more forgiving at close ranges than shooting a load and choke that puts three times as many pellets as they need to kill a turkey at forty yards. From my experience with the turkey hunters I have interacted with over the years, very few of them (none, in fact) are target shooters,...and none are fixated on pellet numbers in a target at whatever the current rage is.
The moral of this story is: Get a load and choke that will put enough pellets to kill a gobbler at some reasonable maximum distance (typically agreed to be 40 yards +/-) but will also kill a gobbler at twenty or thirty yards regardless of if you have his head/neck slightly out-of-center in the sight picture when you pull the trigger. Unless you are one of those guys that shoots dozens of rounds through their turkey guns every year and shoots their shotgun with the accuracy of a rifle (which the vast majority of average turkey hunters don't), you will be glad you did.
(Although this is a bit off of the specific topic, it bears repeating and reinforcing)
Quote from: rgref522 on June 10, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on June 10, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
I know you said lead but you realize that you can down load a 2 3/4 TSS handload to around 1.5 oz and still probably match if not outperform longbeards and not have to worry about consistency.
could you expand, the shell size is something im still reading on. i have always thought the bigger shell the more shot, the more powder, the bigger the better. now realizing that's not the case.
assume everything equal (shot size, same pattern, etc) besides shell size and compare a 3 vs 3.5 inch shell. do they carry the same knockdown power at equal distances? or does the 3 inch have less knockdown being smaller? what else is comprised if anything. i realize this is kind of a beginner question but i think im victim to old timers old school train of thought.
Ryan
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I've been hand loading TSS for about 6 years. What I've learned is first, it's not lead by any means. It works differently. By using a smaller shot size ( most commonly #9) you gain the advantages of TSS. I wouldn't ever consider anything less than #8. With a number 9 shot I've killed birds cleanly past 60 yards. Now I know the 40 yard rules on OG and I am being honest here. It's about knowing your equipment. Shot density both of the individual pellet and the shot pattern itself is what makes it so deadly. TSS weights run 18-18.5 3/cc. Lead is like 11. Second it doesn't deform so you are able to get tight patterns eaisly. It's not about how fast or anything like that it's just that you are putting a lot of shot down range in a pattern that is inherently tight.. so with all that said it's easy to down load for the guy who only wants to kill turkeys at 40 yards. Now once you go down the rabbit hole you're likely going to be like "just what can I do" and then things get crazy. I've gone full circle and now I have a load that shoots great in all my guns and it puts up around 320-330 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards. I can make it do more but I sacrifice close range forgiveness.