I keep seeing people post about hunter numbers being down , how we need hunter recruitment and some on hunting shows are doing good for the sport by recruiting more hunters. I dont get it. Where are the folks that repeat these things over and over getting their info or that impression? If you are not over ran with hunters in your area , then I envy you. I hunt in MS. And I can tell you that I have absolutely seen the opposite. What makes me laugh is how people always give this tip , "Hunt during the week and hunt later in the morning when".... wait for it ... Its less people in the woods. How can this sound advice limit the number of people hunting during the week and later in the morning remain completely true? Now I get people working and prior engagements do not allow everyone that luxury but also at the same time , more hunters start following that advice and before its over , the advice is no longer true. I started this thread just to hear other peoples thoughts . Feel free to voice your opinion on this topic but keep in mind that we all have different ones and no one persons opinion is right and wrong.
Leasing and other reasons that have decreased hunter access. In short, everyone is lumped into the same area. Mr. Smith who used to allow 6-8 guys to hunt his 500 acre farm leased to two guys. Now you have 6 guys displaced. We all end up in the same public spots or the very few private spots That u can still hunt on a handshake. I feeL the exact same as you. Feels like people are EVERYWHERE. I looked at my states statistics. They have a chart of yearly turkey tags sold. 2003- 95,000 sold. 2019- 63,000 sold. And it felt a lot more crowded in 2019 than 2003. Try to find those statistics for your state. They are probably out there. Facts are, nationwide, hunter numbers are down considerably.
29th year in Missouri, ran into guys every day where I have never seen anyone. Same here in Pa hunters everywhere, cant find a place without a man track.
Indiana is crowded too. I seen a ton of people this year but I didn't notice much difference between years even with this pandemic going on. I'm with you on where they getting their data from. I have an Indiana lifetime license ok. After 10 years the state doesn't get money from the Pittman Robertson act no more. So if they aren't getting that and no new hunters start buying the tag they might get the idea that numbers are dropping but they aren't. If other states are like Indiana on the lifetime license deal then they are misinterpreting the data My 2 cents
Indiana was bad this year. Seemed like every pull off had a truck.
Much like discussions on the factors driving population declines, this topic has numerous causes, and I don't think it can be attributed to one single issue. That said, I continue to say that one of the biggest threats to the future of hunting in general is access to a place to hunt.
Speaking for my little corner of the world just as one example, it is extremely difficult to get access to private property without paying a hefty sum for leasing fees, which a lot folks simply can't do, or don't have the connections to find. My area of our state has very limited public land opportunities. Throw in the recent "cool' factor of hunting public land with the number of people wanting to try their hand at turkey hunting, and worst yet, a year like this one where a large population had more time to spend in the woods, and it's not hard to connect the dots to why some areas this year have been not only overcrowded, but in some cases, downright dangerous.
Case in point. I have a local WMA within a short distance of my home that was an absolute gem for both deer and turkey since its inception. Excellent habitat surrounded by several large, private holdings. Deer hunting was essentially limited to archery only, with a short muzzleloader season, and turkey was limited to a couple of short draw hunts. The turkey hunting would rival some of the best areas in the southeastern US for many years. A few years ago the state removed the draw requirements for turkey and made it open. Later, they removed all restrictions for deer and allowed rifle hunting in conjunction with the statewide regulations. Make no mistake, I support all means of hunting, so that's not the issue. But that entire WMA went from an absolute gem of a property to a below average property as a whole, at best, almost overnight. If you knew what the turkey hunting was like before, you would have to experience it to even believe it's the same property.
Nationally, sales of licenses are down. I get that, and again, there are multiple drivers. Lifetime licenses were mentioned as one cause, and maybe so, though I feel that's minimal at best. In TN you can pay $165 annually for a resident sportsmans license, or buy your kids a lifetime license before the age of 3 for $200. Do the math on that. Same if you are over 65, and it's even less expensive.
That said, back to the access, I think you are seeing a greater influx of people crowded into the only available options (i.e. public land) because it's either the only option they have or can afford, they want to be part of the "In" crowd, or a mix of other factors.
Regardless, it is changing the landscape, and I hope states take notice and adapt so that they can maintain not only our turkey populations, but also the quality of the experience on the available lands. There should be a balance. I travel to hunt all the country, and our NA Wildlife model and public lands system is something that we all should be able to enjoy, within reason.
I just don't see most states adapting to regulations at the same speed the sport has changed in recent years, which is troubling.
In my area, we are not very far from a largish city. It has a large university. Lots of the college kids hunt, but most years they are right near the main access roads and mostly on the weekends. This year, we were overwhelmed with high school and college kids (both closed) hunting every day of the week. It is what it is. They have as much right as I do to the land. Most of them were respectful and followed normal ethics (huge area? find another spot if someone is parked at the one you planned to hunt). A few either did not know better or did not care.
The good news was the draw areas were nearly empty. Mostly those are from hunters out of the area and they did not make the trip. Those weekends were awesome and very successful for my crew because competition was minimal and what little was there, we all just spread out. Both spots were a 20 minute drive from my house.
This is Covid year...nobody has anything better to do than turkey hunt. Perhaps things will return to normal next year.
Look into the numbers a little more. Total hunter numbers is relatively unchanged. It's the percentage of the population that hunts that is down which is obvious when we have more people. Many places have reached their hunter carrying capacity for the amount of access available. Hard to recruit people when there is nowhere to take them.
God quit making acres a few billion years; humans have continued their bumping and grinding. Do the math.
Yes, been over ran with hunters this season.
I mentioned this in the TN bag limit post. Displaced workers and students with a lot of time on their hands made hunting tougher this spring. I thought hunters were everywhere. These younger kids have someone drop them off and trespass in a NY minute. I enjoyed some success, but was frustrated on a lot of days. I hope things return to normal by next season for a whole lot of reasons. Stay safe!
I'll add that the high school and college aspect is 100% right. I'm a senior in high school and hunted nearly every day of the season. After I filled my tag I went with friends. Had nothing else to do.
Quote from: Turkeyman on May 14, 2020, 02:43:48 PM
This is Covid year...nobody has anything better to do than turkey hunt. Perhaps things will return to normal next year.
I spoke with DNR one day that I drove an hour south to hunt where I thought no one would be. Middle of week and lots of people. DNR said more fishing and turkey tags being sold than ever.
Quote from: chadly on May 14, 2020, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: Turkeyman on May 14, 2020, 02:43:48 PM
This is Covid year...nobody has anything better to do than turkey hunt. Perhaps things will return to normal next year.
I spoke with DNR one day that I drove an hour south to hunt where I thought no one would be. Middle of week and lots of people. DNR said more fishing and turkey tags being sold than ever.
Yes, and be prepared. Due to the influx of "Covid hunters" I predict that a fair number will like it! Thus for at least several subsequent years you're going to see more turkey hunters.
Certain things are up but overall it is down.
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Where I hunt turkey hunters have become non existant for a while now. There used to be guys everywhere.
Turkey numbers are also way down and its not uncommon to go days or even a week without even hearing a gobble. A few days of hunting like that guys leave and never come back.
Year's ago farmers only had a couple hundred acres and welcomed hunters to rid land of crop eating animals. Now small farmers are not the norm. We have farmers that own several thousand acres and some don't want to lose it over a hunting accident or frivolous lawsuit. Others give permission to a couple lucky relatives or friends that instead of years ago tied up a couple hundred acres is now tying up several thousand..
Article in U.S. News and World Reports
Turkey hunter numbers in wildlife management areas in Georgia increased 47% this year from 2019, while turkeys killed during the first 23 days of the season rose 26%, despite no recent increase in bird numbers, the ecologists, respectively with the University of Georgia and Louisiana State University, wrote in a report, citing state department of natural resources preliminary data.
Not all states have reported an increase in hunting license applications, with both California and Florida seeing declines.
Still, big game such as deer could see similar pressure in the autumn as hunters have more time to max out "bag limits," which in the case of Georgia is 12 animals, the ecologists said.
Lot more people were hunting in my area this year because of virus and being off work. A lot of these guys are mostly deer hunters , but decided to try turkey hunting to just get out of the house. couple of these guys i loaned them some pot calls and couple box calls .. Turkeys in my area got a lot more pressure this year, than any years pass ...
X2.....
Access of land is the problem. In PA from the 80's to Y2K I never hunted state land. Had access to hundreds of private acres. Since then development(mostly) and land ownership turnover all that access is gone. If you want quality hunting you'll need to buy the land.
In 10 to 20 years you'll see less and less Hunting access to state & federal lands. As hunters become a smaller % of society and animal lovers become a larger % of society. Most people use to be ambivalent to hunting. Now they hate it 1. More people turning against Guns 2. People don't know where or how meat gets in to stores
They'll be a few states that hold out because the will be to much money to make. Already started in WY, you use to get free preference points if you missed out on a drawing. Last year they started charging for pp, Antelope $31, Elk $50. Prices will just keep going up. Access down.
How long do you think SD rules & prices will stay the same as more and more people go to hunt there because hunting sux where they live?
back in the old days people hunted where ever they wanted. just be respectful and nobody cared. starting in the 70s and 80s city folk started buying up properties and posted the boundaries.
my trout fishing buddy said locals put up signs that said "If Your Land is Posted, Stay OFF of Mine"
It fluctuates from year to year, but overall numbers are up.
Some states are declining, while some are rising.
This is interesting: https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/Hunting.htm
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on May 14, 2020, 06:43:26 PM
Year's ago farmers only had a couple hundred acres and welcomed hunters to rid land of crop eating animals. Now small farmers are not the norm. We have farmers that own several thousand acres and some don't want to lose it over a hunting accident or frivolous lawsuit. Others give permission to a couple lucky relatives or friends that instead of years ago tied up a couple hundred acres is now tying up several thousand..
IL is a Democratic hole, but there is a law on the books....landowners cannot be sued by persons trespassing or not.
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I havent run in to another turkey hunter in about 3 yrs in my area of NY. Matter of fact last yr I never heard another hunter even shoot. Mike
I hunted public in three states, Indiana, Missouri and Michigan.
Only one day in Missouri cuz I got a bird right off, but I went into a piece with access that was a long hike, nobody there.
Indy was busy but I again easily got away from others by hiking in about 1.75 miles, birds were obviously pushed back there but very reluctant to work!
Michigan I had a small piece of private to hunt and it had no birds so I went to some public, took a couple days to find some good sign and the first nice morning there were several birds gobbling in there, made my way in and 2 guys were already there. Made a move and killed a bird a mile or so from there.
Quote from: mspaci on May 15, 2020, 07:50:51 AM
I havent run in to another turkey hunter in about 3 yrs in my area of NY. Matter of fact last yr I never heard another hunter even shoot. Mike
Same here. What part of NY. And how are the bird numbers by you.
Quote from: mikejd on May 15, 2020, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: mspaci on May 15, 2020, 07:50:51 AM
I havent run in to another turkey hunter in about 3 yrs in my area of NY. Matter of fact last yr I never heard another hunter even shoot. Mike
Same here. What part of NY. And how are the bird numbers by you.
lol don't answer that :)
I wish half the people in my area would quit lol. I can't hardly believe hunter numbers are down. My gosh everyone turkey hunts now
Quote from: mspaci on May 15, 2020, 07:50:51 AM
I havent run in to another turkey hunter in about 3 yrs in my area of NY. Matter of fact last yr I never heard another hunter even shoot. Mike
I've got a pretty good idea where you're located. N 40* 46.298' W 73* 58.489' I'll have to give it a try.
True. I wasn't able to hunt at all ,in 3 states, this spring.
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I do believe that the percentage of people that hunt is way down...
There are probably more hunters than when your grandfather was around, but as a percentage, there is less pecentage of the total population hunting.
As stated, more hunters hunting, and less land to hunt on as well. Less publicly available land, as well as less privately available land... In the not so distant past, if you wanted to hunt on private land, you tracked down the owner and simply asked...
Also, there are less casual hunters... A good percentage of hunters used to buy a license and shoot doves on opening day, or go out once for deer. Now most people that purchase a license are fairly avid (and frequent) hunters...
I believe that hunting is becoming an elitist sport, where there is less available public land, and any degree of success will require being a member of some hunting club with rights on private lands (much as duck hunting in California is becoming). Overly crowded hunt areas and pricey clubs... Guys and gals will look for a different hobby.
No mention of squirrel season. How many hunters take kids small game hunting? Kids don't need to start out hunting deer and turkey.
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Quote from: fallhnt on May 16, 2020, 09:56:58 AM
No mention of squirrel season. How many hunters take kids small game hunting? Kids don't need to start out hunting deer and turkey.
True...back in the day I'd get home from school and either grab the .22 and sit for squirrels or grab the shotgun and dog for a rabbit hunt.
Quote from: fallhnt on May 16, 2020, 09:56:58 AM
No mention of squirrel season. How many hunters take kids small game hunting? Kids don't need to start out hunting deer and turkey.
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That is very true for most . Not much for small game videos on u tube to keep kids interested. Kids can start turkey and deer hunting at a very early age. Also that's what dads like the most . With limited time and expenses at stake most will not drive to hunt a squirrel. Deer and turkey hunting videos have been going on for 30+ years. How many dads going small game hunting now?
The line of (NWTF) thinking that we don't have enough turkey hunters is a thing of the past. There are so many turkeys hunters here in the south that the hunting will never be what it was. We hunt on private ground and spend most of the season trying to keep people off of the land. If you have gobbling turkeys on your land you can believe that some one is hunting them if you aren't there. That has become standard language down here. There were arrests of people, won't call them hunters, arrested for killing in excess of 100 gobblers. They were going in and feeding on private ground and 4-6 were shooting every turkey they could when the turkeys would come into feed. If you don't think there are enough turkey hunters just go hunt Mark Twain National Forest and see how many people you see from the South. It's ridiculous and I'm from the South. Hunters down here hunt for a month and a half and then travel to harvest turkeys in as many places as they can get to. Check out The Hunting Public and The Pinhoti Project. I know a whole lot of turkey hunters that hunt just like that but don't have a camera man following them around.
The God given right to hunt is not going anywhere, people need to get over their fear. There are people with a whole lot of money and power that will make sure it doesn't. For the next four years, namely Trump and his oldest son that is an avid hunter . Turkey hunting resources are dwindling because of too many hunters. Believe it. Trapping and transporting is a practice used to try and combat over harvest. We are there again in many areas. We used to hear 30-40 turkeys gobble in a morning in the 80's and 90's. Struggle to find one now and lucky to hear two or three. That isn't because there aren't enough hunters.
To the poster in NY. Where do you hunt in NY? You have turkeys? You need some more turkey hunters? We can send them that way next spring. I see there are some coordinates up there. We will drop them right into OnXhunt. See you in the Spring.
Tom Kelly/ 10th Legion: Great book for the turkey hunter.
Kind of nice this year I didnt have one instance of poaching to deal with and I was home alot more...coincidence I think not.
Yeah I completely feel like everyone else is coming o
In on my place. If I give permission that's one thing, but had someone break my chain sometime in the last few weeks and help themselves to the farm. Sad world we live in honestly
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Yep....sad. Big yellow posters everywhere.....places I hunted forty years ago bought up or leased for hunting... "ask and thou do NOT receive" Tough...... and all the "hunting shows' and NWTF promoting taking a kid hunting......love to....Where!?
Dying sport boys and girls....
Live in south Mississippi, been hunting for 40 seasons last two or three years on public land I have seen more people than ever , would love to find a place where number of hunters are down LOL.
Quote from: CT Spur Collector on May 17, 2020, 10:34:34 AM
Yep....sad. Big yellow posters everywhere.....places I hunted forty years ago bought up or leased for hunting... "ask and thou do NOT receive" Tough...... and all the "hunting shows' and NWTF promoting taking a kid hunting......love to....Where!?
Dying sport boys and girls....
So its wrong for someone to lease or buy property , post it and hunt it and want others to keep out? I don't understand your angle on this one.
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Quote from: Fullfan on May 14, 2020, 12:35:40 PM
29th year in Missouri, ran into guys every day where I have never seen anyone. Same here in Pa hunters everywhere, cant find a place without a man track.
35th year in Missouri and I found the same thing. I thought the license increase would have had a negative effect, but the Covid-19 put a lot of people in the turkey woods.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on May 14, 2020, 10:14:35 AM
I keep seeing people post about hunter numbers being down , how we need hunter recruitment and some on hunting shows are doing good for the sport by recruiting more hunters. I dont get it. Where are the folks that repeat these things over and over getting their info or that impression? If you are not over ran with hunters in your area , then I envy you. I hunt in MS. And I can tell you that I have absolutely seen the opposite. What makes me laugh is how people always give this tip , "Hunt during the week and hunt later in the morning when".... wait for it ... Its less people in the woods. How can this sound advice limit the number of people hunting during the week and later in the morning remain completely true? Now I get people working and prior engagements do not allow everyone that luxury but also at the same time , more hunters start following that advice and before its over , the advice is no longer true. I started this thread just to hear other peoples thoughts . Feel free to voice your opinion on this topic but keep in mind that we all have different ones and no one persons opinion is right and wrong.
Mississippi was already one of the toughest places to get away from pressure before this year. There are very few private leases that aren't like hunting public land. I know of one lease that had close to 30 hunters at camp one weekend! Now, they all weren't hunting separately, but still that's a lot of folks, even spread out over 10k acres that's a lot.
One thing that added to Mississippi pressure this season was the fact that Alabama decided to mess their season up and start a week later than normal. This tremendously increased pressure in Mississippi.
Obviously Covid added to that.
To make matters worse, the bird numbers in some areas of South Mississippi were as good as they've been in a long time. A lot of people had early success and to be honest, in recent years they wouldn't of found turkeys where they killed them this year.
The only exception I know of where populations have been overall low, it's been the case the past few years along the Pearl River from Columbia south. The population in that area really needs to see a closed season west of hwy 43.
Definitely more pressure than ever before in Mississippi this season.
In my opinion, they are behind in management practices, need to close the season in some areas, increase out of state licenses to equate the neighboring states, and go to a hard tag system with a reduced limit.
Not in Florida thier not.... and the new breed of florida hunters are very pushy and careless
Sign of the times, OG. It's unfortunate.
Way more hunters and way more predators = way less turkeys. Man, I miss the 80's. Heck, I miss 10 years ago.
Quote from: Rick Howard on May 15, 2020, 09:27:57 PM
Quote from: mikejd on May 15, 2020, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: mspaci on May 15, 2020, 07:50:51 AM
I havent run in to another turkey hunter in about 3 yrs in my area of NY. Matter of fact last yr I never heard another hunter even shoot. Mike
Same here. What part of NY. And how are the bird numbers by you.
lol don't answer that :)
You can't spot burn NY. There are no hunters here and very few birds. I'll give you my parking spot location if you want. No one is coming.
Quote from: Longshanks on May 16, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
The line of (NWTF) thinking that we don't have enough turkey hunters is a thing of the past. There are so many turkeys hunters here in the south that the hunting will never be what it was. We hunt on private ground and spend most of the season trying to keep people off of the land. If you have gobbling turkeys on your land you can believe that some one is hunting them if you aren't there. That has become standard language down here. There were arrests of people, won't call them hunters, arrested for killing in excess of 100 gobblers. They were going in and feeding on private ground and 4-6 were shooting every turkey they could when the turkeys would come into feed. If you don't think there are enough turkey hunters just go hunt Mark Twain National Forest and see how many people you see from the South. It's ridiculous and I'm from the South. Hunters down here hunt for a month and a half and then travel to harvest turkeys in as many places as they can get to. Check out The Hunting Public and The Pinhoti Project. I know a whole lot of turkey hunters that hunt just like that but don't have a camera man following them around.
The God given right to hunt is not going anywhere, people need to get over their fear. There are people with a whole lot of money and power that will make sure it doesn't. For the next four years, namely Trump and his oldest son that is an avid hunter . Turkey hunting resources are dwindling because of too many hunters. Believe it. Trapping and transporting is a practice used to try and combat over harvest. We are there again in many areas. We used to hear 30-40 turkeys gobble in a morning in the 80's and 90's. Struggle to find one now and lucky to hear two or three. That isn't because there aren't enough hunters.
Exactly
The only ones that believe or keep quoting "we need more Turkey hunters" are delusional, or hunt some tiny private lease and are thrilled to kill a single Gobbler every other year and spend most of their time collecting calls or fishing. Anybody that actually gets out and really hunts public land knows the last thing we need is more people.
Quote from: owlhoot on May 16, 2020, 10:35:37 AM
Quote from: fallhnt on May 16, 2020, 09:56:58 AM
How many hunters take kids small game hunting. How many dads going small game hunting now?
I have had the kids helping with breaking pointers by flushing grouse and woodcock or firing blanks since they were 3.5 years old. Same for bringing them along in the duck blind, turkey blind and short sits in the squirrel woods. They love water trapping and checking land sets with binos from the truck. Might be strange to some but it's just what we do and have always done.
The reason I go out of my way to hunt private land!!
This year I heard more shots from more places that never used to get turkey hunted. I also had trespassers mess me up (twice) this Spring. That never used to happen around those properties. The number of people hunting turkeys went WAY up compared to the average because so many were home off work from COVID-19. Judging by what I heard, the number of poor callers and clueless hunters also went way up. I had a guy & his son come riding down the horse trail (on the farm I have exclusive hunting rights on) on a four wheeler with the lights on less than 10 minutes from when the turkeys usually start to gobble. When I stepped out onto the trail, they fled off the other side of the property (still trespassing) and rode down along the bottom where the gobbler I was after preferred to roost. Of course I heard nothing that morning.
I suspect next year will give a better idea what the future might hold.
Jim
Quote from: Longshanks on May 16, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
The line of (NWTF) thinking that we don't have enough turkey hunters is a thing of the past. There are so many turkeys hunters here in the south that the hunting will never be what it was. We hunt on private ground and spend most of the season trying to keep people off of the land. If you have gobbling turkeys on your land you can believe that some one is hunting them if you aren't there. That has become standard language down here. There were arrests of people, won't call them hunters, arrested for killing in excess of 100 gobblers. They were going in and feeding on private ground and 4-6 were shooting every turkey they could when the turkeys would come into feed. If you don't think there are enough turkey hunters just go hunt Mark Twain National Forest and see how many people you see from the South. It's ridiculous and I'm from the South. Hunters down here hunt for a month and a half and then travel to harvest turkeys in as many places as they can get to. Check out The Hunting Public and The Pinhoti Project. I know a whole lot of turkey hunters that hunt just like that but don't have a camera man following them around.
The God given right to hunt is not going anywhere, people need to get over their fear. There are people with a whole lot of money and power that will make sure it doesn't. For the next four years, namely Trump and his oldest son that is an avid hunter . Turkey hunting resources are dwindling because of too many hunters. Believe it. Trapping and transporting is a practice used to try and combat over harvest. We are there again in many areas. We used to hear 30-40 turkeys gobble in a morning in the 80's and 90's. Struggle to find one now and lucky to hear two or three. That isn't because there aren't enough hunters.
To the poster in NY. Where do you hunt in NY? You have turkeys? You need some more turkey hunters? We can send them that way next spring. I see there are some coordinates up there. We will drop them right into OnXhunt. See you in the Spring.
Tom Kelly/ 10th Legion: Great book for the turkey hunter.
Exactly!
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It was a perfect storm this year against the turkeys that's for sure . For all the reasons mentioned already especially in Mississippi Only hope is a good hatch for a couple years .. I personally didn't see a lot of Jakes this year .