Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

We all either know or may even be guilty of it ourselves. The conversations of "educating" turkeys. Whether it's over calling, bumping them in the woods, getting busted, etc. considering an animal with a roughly walnut sized brain. My question is this: Are we giving them too much credit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 I have had my nuggets busted enough times with these mean critters that I respect them. Plain and simple.

I've seen them shy away from blinds and decoys far enough I can't get an arrow in them.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

They're dumb birds, but paranoid, and their mood is unpredictable. I think the more they get spooked, the more nervous and quiet they get. It's just an instinctive response, doesn't mean they've gotten smart like a mature buck would. That is my opinion, I could be off a little.

Side note, brain size doesn't mean much. Crows are very smart and I'd guess their brains are even smaller than turkeys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Judging by the first two days of my season, I have not given them enough credit.  Lol

Easy to confuse educated versus conditioned.

Quote from: catman529 on April 23, 2020, 09:24:53 PM
They're dumb birds, but paranoid, and their mood is unpredictable. I think the more they get spooked, the more nervous and quiet they get. It's just an instinctive response, doesn't mean they've gotten smart like a mature buck would. That is my opinion, I could be off a little.

Side note, brain size doesn't mean much. Crows are very smart and I'd guess their brains are even smaller than turkeys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Lol....so a mature buck uses his IQ to survive.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Some great responses. I have worked in family owned turkey houses quite a bit throughout my adult life. Although they are domesticated, still the same animal in a roundabout way. The education they have given me just inside a turkey house has been surprising. They react to some strange things.

I've been in a house before and drawn a line in the litter and the birds for whatever reason would NOT cross it. Just a simple line in the ground.

I've seen flocks so docile that you can walk through the whole house without so much as a peck. I've also seen flocks so mean that they were literally falling out of the house trying to fight you when you open the door.

I feel that wild birds are flocks of individuals that have different thoughts, wants, and emotions that can change by the second. Throw in the daylight driven sexual drive during the right time of year and there's no telling what they'll do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll go with wary, extremely wary at times and have instincts for survival, excellent eyesight, amazing hearing and we're lucky they really have almost no sense of smell. I know they can "remember" things, have seen that happen enough to know that have some sense of this, and seem to only have one of their senses trigger the "escape danger" response. But in turn there are things you can learn about them, as in biology, social structure, dominance and more that help you in hunting them.


MK M GOBL

Evolution, thank god they can't smell!!

They may be a big bird, but they're still a prey animal. Therefore, they have stunningly acute senses that accompany a very high wariness. They can modify their behavior in accordance to their surroundings and associated pressure from predators, to include us. Cognition and intelligence? Not so much.

Nature has a way of taking care of them, but I DO give them credit in being pretty crafty in avoiding us most of the time , i guess you could call it survival , you will go home more days without killing one than killing him.

I've never hunted something more moody than a gobbler. What works one day may not work the next. He may come in to a spot for a week straight and then disappear for a week. Times he may visit are so random. I've had some gobblers show up in an area where I never even called and they seemed to know something was up and stayed out of range. I think if they could smell we'd never kill one..lol.

We probably are. But it makes our egos feel better when those walnut sized brains whoop us.
I think after centuries of being prey, they are quite wary. Despite their small brains, they learn through repeated mistakes on our parts.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

You discount them at your own peril.  They can learn.

They are a great  creature and have provided me with hours of fun. I think we should get a petition going to hybrenize them so that they can smell. Imagine the challenge!

Quote from: mtns2hunt on April 23, 2020, 11:30:35 PM
I think we should get a petition going to hybrenize them so that they can smell. Imagine the challenge!

Please no...I'd like to keep what hair I have left!

Brain size? I know quite a few humans that have a brain several times larger than a walnut and they aren't very brite. If you hunt them long enough you will see instances of learned behavior. Killing a few suicidal two year olds is different than dealing with an older Gobbler that has been pressured. Multiple studies have shown Gobblers to quit gobbling when pressure increases, they can learn. Going completely silent then circling a callers location and standing there searching every inch till they spot you? That's not instinct he's  not looking for coyotes or bobcats.

As said before, brain size doesn't necessarily correlate to intelligence. However, a turkey is a pretty simple minded creature. He has an innate sense to eat, sleep, fight, breed, and survive. That survival sense is absolutely the most keen and developed of all of them. Just about everything in the woods likes to eat turkey. By nature that makes them extremely paranoid and cautious. Then you add their incredible eyesight and hearing, plus an uncanny ability to pinpoint the source of sound. Also, they are extremely difficult to pattern, as they seldom do the exact same thing twice. I attribute that to the simple mindedness of the bird; I don't think he knows what he will do next. Add up all these factors, along with their naturally wary nature, and you have a bird that's pretty dang tough to kill. They definitely have the mental capacity to remember bad or scary experiences, and they change their behavior accordingly. They're extremely adaptable to change, including hunting pressure. This is why 3+ year old gobblers get increasingly harder and harder to kill. It's not that they're a "wise old bird", and they don't get smarter with age. It's just that the ones who live longer have a larger number of dangerous experiences, which has conditioned them over time to behave in a certain way. Yes, people often exaggerate a turkeys intelligence, and look at them as almost supernatural, which is incorrect. However, most underestimate a gobblers natural senses and instinct, and how well they remember and condition themselves to unpleasant experiences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Turkeys are stupid. Great eyesight and they're hearing is amazing the way they pinpoint sound. But watch them around decoys, reapers, fences. They watch their buddy get his head blown off yet stick around or come right back into the same "hen". Tens of thousands get fooled every year by some that their calling will make you cringe and sound nothing like a real hen. If not for being paranoid they'd be extinct.

X 10. I think they are extremely wary, especially the older pressured Toms. Their eyesight is unmatched. They have humbled me more times than I can remember. As stated in an earlier post, if turkeys had a deers sense of smell, we wouldn't have many proud pictures posted on our forum.....be safe.....

Idk why but this thread has me thinking about Jurassic Park. Clever girl....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OMG, I will have nightmares now...lol

Quote from: Moneyball11 on April 24, 2020, 07:45:20 AM
Idk why but this thread has me thinking about Jurassic Park. Clever girl....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, they are indeed rather primitive looking.

They have INSTINCT, not INTELLIGENCE.  There is a vast difference, but when you get busted it makes you question both; not only the Turkey's but your own!

Amen, well said. Bottom line, we can't live without em.... :turkey2:

I had a guy tell me they are not much for thinking but outstanding on reacting . Their senses are very keen . Their eyesight is very good and their ability to know exactly where a sound comes from amazes me .  On top of that their are things trying to eat them everyday so they are always on the look out for something not right . But if if have every seen one keep trying to walk thru a fence or gobble at a truck door slamming you scratch your head .

Quote from: turkey_picker on April 23, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Evolution, thank god they can't smell!!

Amen to that!!!  That thought crosses my mind every spring when I'm trying to bag a gobbler.  And I've thought about the reason behind that during those quiet moments in the turkey woods, because if they had any kind of sniffer they'd be damn near impossible to hunt. 

It must be there's only so much space in that little noggin, and once all you add in spectacular visual processing ability along with auditory processing there just isn't any room to spare for smell processing?

Talk about evolution, their brain may be only the size of a half a walnut but they make monkeys out of us  hunters many, many times a spring.    :funnyturkey:

Quote from: obro on April 24, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
I had a guy tell me they are not much for thinking but outstanding on reacting . Their senses are very keen . Their eyesight is very good and their ability to know exactly where a sound comes from amazes me .  On top of that their are things trying to eat them everyday so they are always on the look out for something not right . But if if have every seen one keep trying to walk thru a fence or gobble at a truck door slamming you scratch your head .

That pretty much sums it up.

We give them to much credit in some aspects and not enough credit in others.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I think they can get educated, throw me in the basket of people that give them too much credit.

They've been equipped with some level of intelligence and that is the same that most animals are... that is to survive.

If birds can learn that calls that come from a certain area of the woods equal no real hen or danger. If they can learn to not show themselves but gobble and wait for the hen to come. If they can be disturbed and leave an area, fly into a tree and hold during bad weather conditions for safety.

That sounds like intelligence to me... call it conditioning or educating. The point is that the birds began to learn that something is up, and alter there behaviors because of it.

I notice there's 2 schools, 1) that says they're the dumbest things on the planet. And 2) the birds can get educated.

It is all based on survival, and if they were actually truly stupid they wouldn't survive. Maybe paranoia is the drive that keeps them alive, but same with a mature buck. If he even gets human scent in an area that it's not suppose to be, he books it out of there. Pressured bucks will go nocturnal, out of paranoia that something is gonna get them. They will go through some nasty terrain if it means they can bed safely.

I'm in the club that says these animals do have some level of survival intelligence, and can learn what danger is. Just like they know coyotes/dogs equal danger. Or how a buck can hear metal clang together from a tree stand and know that's an unnaturally sound in the woods and stay hunkered down until night and then maybe not return back to that bed for a long while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have had this discussion and a lot of it comes down to definition of terms. 

Does ability to learn mean intelligence to you?  If it does, they are intelligent.
Does ability to reason mean intelligence to you?  If it does, they are not intelligent. 

They are good at what they need to be to survive in the woods, both during the season and the rest of the year.  Humans are just one of the critters that want to eat them.  They have keen senses and one foot on the panic button-just like many prey species. 

Birds that have been taught what is bad by positive punishment (I do X behavior and something bad happens), not negative reinforcement (if I stop doing this behavior, the bad thing is taken away) can easily learn to avoid conditions, behaviors, sounds, sights, etc.  If this were not true, why is it not universally agreed that 2 year olds are easier to kill than big mature birds.  Why is it not pretty much universally accepted that pressured birds are harder to kill than naive birds?  But with all that said, even the wariest and the most learned turkeys still have some weaknesses that hunters exploit to kill them.

Quote from: g8rvet on April 24, 2020, 08:28:59 PM
I have had this discussion and a lot of it comes down to definition of terms. 

Does ability to learn mean intelligence to you?  If it does, they are intelligent.
Does ability to reason mean intelligence to you?  If it does, they are not intelligent. 

They are good at what they need to be to survive in the woods, both during the season and the rest of the year.  Humans are just one of the critters that want to eat them.  They have keen senses and one foot on the panic button-just like many prey species. 

Birds that have been taught what is bad by positive punishment (I do X behavior and something bad happens), not negative reinforcement (if I stop doing this behavior, the bad thing is taken away) can easily learn to avoid conditions, behaviors, sounds, sights, etc.  If this were not true, why is it not universally agreed that 2 year olds are easier to kill than big mature birds.  Why is it not pretty much universally accepted that pressured birds are harder to kill than naive birds?  But with all that said, even the wariest and the most learned turkeys still have some weaknesses that hunters exploit to kill them.

Well said!

They certainly don't strategize against us but you have to respect their ability to survive and be unpredictable

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

They may have a walnut sized brain and we might think they are dumb but I know some people who are dumber.

No, the opposite is true, we don't give them enough credit.

Quote from: silvestris on April 23, 2020, 11:21:36 PM
You discount them at your own peril.  They can learn.

In this debate, put me squarely in this camp.    Over the decades, I have just witnessed too many instances of wild turkeys doing things that could only be explained by some rudimentary level of "thinking" on their part. 

Once a turkey hunter recognizes this fact,...and adjusts how he approaches hunting any particular gobbler that, by his actions, demonstrates that he has "learned" to respond to certain things in his environment by behaving in a manner of avoidance,...that hunter will, over time, be more successful.

As Silvestris stated, anyone who does not recognize a wild turkey's ability to "learn",...and does not adjust his/her hunting tactics to compensate for that,..."does so at their own peril" in terms of their overall success rates. 

Having said  that, the statement "any gobbler can be killed" is absolutely true.  However, anyone that believes that "any" gobbler can be killed using what are generally considered to be "standard" practices, will waste a lot of time trying to kill certain gobblers that way,...and in the end, walk out of the woods empty-handed. 

Quote from: mtns2hunt on April 23, 2020, 11:30:35 PM
They are a great  creature and have provided me with hours of fun. I think we should get a petition going to hybrenize them so that they can smell. Imagine the challenge!

All you'd have to do is wear a HECS suit over Scentlok and put out a decent amount of turkey in heat cover scent. :D

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

I didn't have any success hunting them, until I treated them as an intelligent bird.

Turkeys act and they react. They act like turkeys 24/7 and will react to being introduced to new things in the environment etc. There is no reasoning process. They can't distinguish that that person calling is in fact a hunter etc. I don't believe they even associate more calling as a threat. I simply think the whole over calling thing is overblown. It is knowing when to pour it on and when less is more that matters.

I've had gobblers shut down completely to a live hen cutting and yelping and shortly after that I have called them up. A turkey is just plainly going to do what they do and continue their normal routine in spite of pressure. They may get a little more wary or wise as they get older simply from surviving being hunted daily. I also believe that any turkey regardless of the amount of pressure/age applied will come willingly to a call on the right day.

They are still quite remarkable birds without us giving them more credit than necessary. That is obviously the reason as to why we are all ate up with turkey hunting. 

I tend to approach them with a Pascal's Gambit attitude.  If you take the unintelligent position and you are right, then I have to scratch my head and wonder why you hunt them.  If you are wrong, I know of no way to convince you of what you are missing by not getting in their heads.  One method is hunting, whereas the other mere killing.  A death at the conclusion of a hunt, performed correctly, is a stunning experience and quite honorable.  I lean sharply to intelligent.

They tend to do what keeps them alive. the longer they live , they longer they learn how to live. are they technically an intelligent animal? Of course not, but it doesn't matter...they can evade and survive. We give them credit for things that are our own fault not theirs....at the end of the day...the animal deserves credit for what it is "a survivor"