My son and I have shot 2 turkeys lately that we feel the pattern hit the bird lower that where the dot was placed. He's using a Burris FF# and I'm using a Vortex Venom. So I pattern these things by using a laser bore sight to line up the 2 dots. The I shoot #8 target loads at 20-25 yards, then dial it in with my turkey loads at 40 yards. We rarely make shots beyond 20-30 yards, ever. Some less than 20. I inspected the bird I shot this morning and found that most of the shot was around the beard and lower neck, but the red dot was on the neck right below the head when I pulled the trigger. The bird's head was extended as it just started to believe something was wrong. I'm lucky I killed it, and it fell dead with little or no flop. Can it be that the shot hits low when the birds are close. To me it's somewhat illogical, as I sight these shotgun/red dot combinations just like scoped rifles. But 2x in one week makes me wonder. I'm planning on shooting #8 target loads at close range this afternoon to see what's up. I may put my laser bore sight in there and check it before i do that as well.
I'd check it with whatever load your hunting with. I had an encore that shot 10" difference between birdshot and tss.
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Quote from: JHoyle on April 22, 2020, 02:48:53 PM
I'd check it with whatever load your hunting with. I had an encore that shot 10" difference between birdshot and tss.
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Wow!
Wouldn't the shot have to cross line of sight. Red dot above barrel.
I have my scopes sighted in dead on at 15 yards, I get them close shots and not a "wide" pattern so I want in on. This in my normal kill range. I did pattern out farther and the gun will kill at 40, pattern spreads by this point.
MK M GOBL
I have a ff3, been using it for years. I generally aim at the waddles and usually fill the neck up with most of my pattern. Im always I guess scared of a last second jerk by the bird if I put it on his beak. but on the occasion that I have taken my time and put it directly on the birds face at 20 yards. it literally dissolved his head so I know its absolutely dead on as can be , which I sight it in in a similar method as you do, start with a lighter load until im punching the bullseye with the wadding at 20, then I follow up with my turkey load at 20 to make sure its the same, then I go to 40 to see where my pattern is . its always worked for me, and ive had no issue with it. One thing you could do and even I have considered this since I generally put the dot where the neck and waddles meet is sight it in slightly high. that way when you pull the trigger you know your pattern is slightly above where you are aiming. May not be a good idea, it is something ive considered before though.
I have a Burris fast fire 3 and I have also noticed that I'm hitting the birds low, I put in a lead sled and the pattern is perfect. I think it is either me dropping the forearm during the shot or something. I have a friend who has said the same thing this year that he is hitting birds low. I think it may have something to do with what setting you have the sight on as well, I get a much better pattern when the sight is on low and the dot is smaller appearing.
Over the years I have run across issues with a number of red dot sights. Fogging, batteries unexpectedly going bad, base screws loosing on the receiver, dot being too bright or too dim at the wrong time, having to hold the gun in an awkward position to see the red dot, running out of sight adjustment chasing a pattern, and the list goes on. Went back to shooting my guns with either double beads or iron adjustable sights.
Two things that are glaring, 1. Why are you shooting dove loads at 20 to 25 yards? Sight in at 12.5 yards to make sure POA/POI are dead on. This will give you a nice hole to adjust to and since most red dots are 1/2 inch moa at 50 yards, you will have 1/16th inch adjustments at 12.5 yards 2. What are the trigger pulls for each gun? If you sighted them in on a bench or on a lead sled, a heavy trigger pull will cause you to pull the shot low. Just a couple of things to check.
Quote from: Longshanks on April 29, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
Over the years I have run across issues with a number of red dot sights. Fogging, batteries unexpectedly going bad, base screws loosing on the receiver, dot being too bright or too dim at the wrong time, having to hold the gun in an awkward position to see the red dot, running out of sight adjustment chasing a pattern, and the list goes on. Went back to shooting my guns with either double beads or iron adjustable sights.
if you are running out of adjustment chasing the pattern....then you have a problem. the sight isn't straight on the gun, or your POI/POA with your barrel is incorrect to a point where you may need the barrel bent. Your base could be out of alignment as well. My burris doesn't fog...perhaps if I sat in a rainstorm it may...other than that it doesn't. If mounted correctly and to spec you should never have an issue with an optic coming loose. I do understand what you are saying...with a bead most of those issues cannot exist, however most of the issues you listed are avoidable.
Quote from: bbcoach on April 29, 2020, 11:33:48 AM
Two things that are glaring, 1. Why are you shooting dove loads at 20 to 25 yards? Sight in at 12.5 yards to make sure POA/POI are dead on. This will give you a nice hole to adjust to and since most red dots are 1/2 inch moa at 50 yards, you will have 1/16th inch adjustments at 12.5 yards 2. What are the trigger pulls for each gun? If you sighted them in on a bench or on a lead sled, a heavy trigger pull will cause you to pull the shot low. Just a couple of things to check.
Next year I'm gonna start out closer. The trigger pull is right in the middle if not a little light, but not a hair trigger so to speak. I've never measured it. But I did take out the trigger group and adjust the pull to make it a little heavier. It was too light for my liking early on. Thanks!
Another cause could be flinching. Take someone with you next time you zero in, to watch if you anticipate recoil. Flinching or anticipating recoil would cause shot to be lower. Just a thought.
MG, one other cause could be trigger creep. How much take up are in the triggers? As Greencop said
you maybe anticipating the gun going off with too much trigger creep.
If your red dot isn't hitting where you aim, then it isn't sighted in correctly. If it's sighted in correctly and still hitting low, then it's the operator.
Quote from: owlhoot on April 22, 2020, 09:42:29 PM
Wouldn't the shot have to cross line of sight. Red dot above barrel.
This all optics start out lower.
Quote from: N2TRKYS on May 08, 2020, 09:52:31 AM
If your red dot isn't hitting where you aim, then it isn't sighted in correctly. If it's sighted in correctly and still hitting low, then it's the operator.
This.
Quote from: N2TRKYS on May 08, 2020, 09:52:31 AM
If your red dot isn't hitting where you aim, then it isn't sighted in correctly. If it's sighted in correctly and still hitting low, then it's the operator.
Man speaks the truth.
If you sight in your shotgun for a 25 yd zero, anything closer than 25 yards will begin to hit below zero. This is because your line of sight will need to intersect your line of projectile flight, by dialing your sight downwards. Therefore, the closer the target is to you under 25 yards, the higher you will need to aim. On the other hand, anything past 25 yards, you will begin to hit high, and you will need to compensate higher until gravity takes over and the projectile will pass back over zero again at some point. All projectiles are different. See the picture. This is the case with all sights, irons or optics. This scenario doesn't apply to beads on your rail, because your line of sight using the bead is basically the line of flight of your projectile.
Quote from: N2TRKYS on May 08, 2020, 09:52:31 AM
If your red dot isn't hitting where you aim, then it isn't sighted in correctly. If it's sighted in correctly and still hitting low, then it's the operator.
The red dot could also be defective....although not likely.
Two shots and two dead birds I don't see the issue? Sight radius between the barrel and red dot on a low mount is less than 2" and we are talking about a scatter gun not a rifle. A 10-20" Pattern should be more than enough to compensate for a 1-2" variation in poi between 15-40 yards. A shotgun is not a rifle, poi changes because the wad floats, drifts, opens differently, and moves around from shot to shot. Not much but 2-6" at 40 yards between shots is typical. Again haven't a 15" pattern negates this making it a non issue. Birds move, poi moves, shooters POA, lots of variables.
Quote from: jrmcclure on June 10, 2020, 10:42:17 AM
Two shots and two dead birds I don't see the issue? Sight radius between the barrel and red dot on a low mount is less than 2" and we are talking about a scatter gun not a rifle. A 10-20" Pattern should be more than enough to compensate for a 1-2" variation in poi between 15-40 yards. A shotgun is not a rifle, poi changes because the wad floats, drifts, opens differently, and moves around from shot to shot. Not much but 2-6" at 40 yards between shots is typical. Again haven't a 15" pattern negates this making it a non issue. Birds move, poi moves, shooters POA, lots of variables.
Spot on! I sling turkey loads at way more paper than I do at turkeys and can vouch for the variability in POI. That goes for even when you are controlling for variables like temp, wind, barrel cleanliness, gun, load, shooter, rest...
Sight in at 12.5 yards to make sure POA/POI are dead on. This will give you a nice hole to adjust to and since most red dots are 1/2 inch moa at 50 yards, you will have 1/16th inch adjustments at 12.5 yards
This..