I'm am new to the TSS game and was curious as to the advantage of the smaller shot size...I do travel to hunt a lot and I have never looked to see what the minimum shot size is in the states I travel to because I never needed to since I'm a 12 gauge Hevi-13 #6 guy.
However since I'm going to jump back in the 20 gauge arena I imagine I'll be shooting it now....my questions are:
Does one size shot work any better than another #9 vs #7 or #8 etc? I would assume that the bigger shot would carry more energy? Also does any of the smaller shot sizes keep you legal in most states without having to change things up?
Thanks in advance!!
Most people agree the #9 carries enough energy to do what it needs to do so there's no need to go larger. The #9 puts more holes where you need them and that's what the whole benefit to using TSS is-being able to use a smaller shot size.
TSS is advantageous due to the density of Tungsten. It weighs somewhere between 1.5-2X more than lead, so 9 shot TSS weighs approximately the same as #5 lead. With 9 shot being so much smaller, you essentially have twice the number of pellets in each load, each one delivering the same knock down power as one #5 lead.
Couple this with the smaller diameter, which provides for more penetration and less air resistance, thus better patterns. There is no reason to shoot any shot bigger than #9s, other than legal reasons, but only a few states have these restrictions. I know Nebraska requires you to shoot 7.5s or bigger, but hopefully as state agencies get used to TSS, this will change.
More pellets , great patterns and more than enough energy.
In gauges 28 and larger, it's hard to beat #9's for combined pattern density and energy. If you are traveling to a state that restricts shot size to larger sized shot, it's probably best to drop down to lead or other alternatives to TSS. Otherwise you start losing pattern density quickly...
I shoot #9. I don't see any reason to use anything else. I'd not go bigger than #8.
Thanks folks!! Guess #9 it is!! I do go to Nebraska on occasion but I could just take the 12 on that trip and not worry about it.
I'm looking forward to toting the lighter 20 gauge in the mountains of WY and MT...those hills are tough on a fat flat lander! LOL
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
I too am new to the TSS game, and am also stepping down from my 12 ga to a 20 ga. I did a lot of research and saw that most guys are going with a load of #9's for their 20's. I called a friend of mine who is an Apex associate. He recommended their Small Town Hunting Blend, which is a duplex load of #7-1/2's and #9's. So that's what I went with.
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Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
TSS #9s = 362 per ounce @ 18g/cc
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 06:43:17 PM
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
TSS #9s = 362 per ounce @ 18g/cc
You're right again. I was looking at a chart for lead shot per ounce. Inserting my foot into my mouth faster than I can type.
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
That sounds about right for lead. However, an ounce of #9 TSS at 18g/cc averages 362 pellets. 19 g/cc TSS will have nominally fewer than that.
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 06:43:17 PM
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
TSS #9s = 362 per ounce @ 18g/cc
You're right again. I was looking at a chart for lead shot per ounce. Inserting my foot into my mouth faster than I can type.
Lol. I'm no TSS expert either but when I first started hearing the heavier than lead talk they almost had me on the TSS train until I did some reading. I'm guessing from all the satisfied customers it must be working for them, but I personally don't think it would be an improvement over what I been using.
"but I personally don't think it would be an improvement over what I been using"
I think the allure of TSS is the downrange power due to the density, and therefore being able to increase the number of pellets resulting in more pellets on target.
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Quote from: RutnNStrutn on April 15, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
"but I personally don't think it would be an improvement over what I been using"
I think the allure of TSS is the downrange power due to the density, and therefore being able to increase the number of pellets resulting in more pellets on target.
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So 1 #6 or 3 #9s would be about the same ....dead is dead and not sure you can improve on that
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on April 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
You are right. After a little math, one pellet of TSS 9 weighs a little more than half of that as lone pellet of lead #5 and about 2/3 the weight of one #6 lead. I was wrong. I guess what it lacks in that department it makes up for just by shot density. One ounce of #5s on average contains 170 pellets, #6 225, and one ounce of #9 contains on average 585. Pretty interesting.
TSS 9's weigh really close to a 7 1/2 lead pellet.
I'm on the #9 bandwagon too. I only started using it this season and have connected with two at about 30 yards and it was devastating.
I switched to a 20 gauge with TSS #9s and haven't looked back. This will make my third season with several kills between my son and I and see no reason to go back to a 12 gauge. My youth model 870 along with my son's both shoot around 250 in the 10" and around 500 in the 20". The TSS #9s have enough energy to kill a turkey past where we should be shooting at them.
If I were still hunting with a 12 ga, I would still be using Longbeard #6s. The allure of the TSS for me is that I can get 12 ga performance out of a 20 ga. After battling with shoulder and neck problems, it is nice to pack a lightweight gun with less recoil.
My first lb of tss I purchased 9.5, only size available at the time, killed a bunch of birds with it. Went with 9s now and see no reason to change.
I have a few hevi 13 7s in case of regulations some places.
This is in a 20ga, if loading a 12 with more payload I would probably try 8s.
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
FYI a lot of people mistakenly claim the TSS #9 is heavier than lead #5or #6....it is not,not even close. TSS is denser but that's not the same as weight. TSS # 9 may be great, I don't shoot TSS, but I think a lot of people are misinformed
YES! I shake my head when I hear someone (mostly Youtube experts reviewing commercial loads) claim that a TSS 9 weighs more than a lead 5. If that were the case then TSS 9's would have a lesser pellet count per oz than lead 5's, which we all know is not the case.
As for the original question, 9's in a 20 ga for me. I'm thinking about trying 8.5's in a 12 ga load next year but won't go larger than that.
What is the aversion to the mixed loads, say the 7/9s or the 8/10s? Is it that people aren't seeing any advantage? Never shot TSS and probably won't in my 12ga, but recently bought some for my wife's single shot 20ga. I bought the Federal 7/9 blend just because I could get it for $30 a box. Seems like there's a pretty strong consensus for straight 9s and curious as to that reasoning beyond shot density. Would seem the presence of larger shot would increase downrange energy at longer distances.
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on May 30, 2020, 09:24:05 AM
What is the aversion to the mixed loads, say the 7/9s or the 8/10s? Is it that people aren't seeing any advantage? Never shot TSS and probably won't in my 12ga, but recently bought some for my wife's single shot 20ga. I bought the Federal 7/9 blend just because I could get it for $30 a box. Seems like there's a pretty strong consensus for straight 9s and curious as to that reasoning beyond shot density. Would seem the presence of larger shot would increase downrange energy at longer distances.
The only reason to use TSS is to get way more shot in your pattern. If everyone believe that #9 is big enough than there would be no advantage to going larger and taking up available room in your shot shell.
Have been killing gobblers with my 20's and TSS 9's for the past 6 years. The 9's have worked great from 5' out to 53 yds. I recently bought several pounds of TSS in 8 shot. Duplex it at 1 oz of 9's under 5/8oz of 8's resulting in 304 in the 10@40. Straight 1 5/8 of the 8's gave me 244 in the 10@40. Shot from a sa459 through an Indian Creek .555. Prob going to hunt with the duplex load next spring, just because..
I have only killed one bird at longer range since switching to tss, it was with a 9.5 1 5/8 oz load, over 40 under 50 and it looked like someone hit him in the head with a 9 iron when I touched off the shot!
The stuff is devastating no matter how you want to look at it, I was skeptical initially as well but I think I am at around 30 birds with it and it is simply impressive!
Proably an equal numer killed with 9s and 9.5 at this point, but bought 6lbs of 9s and it should last a few seasons!
There seems to be some misconception about pellet count...
If a #5 lead pellet weighs the same as a #9 TSS pellet. And... If 100 #5 lead pellets weigh 1 ounce, and 100 #9 TSS pellets weigh 1 ounce, and you shoot a 1 ounce load, you will have the same number of pellets in each load.
What you can do, is generate larger payloads more easily with the denser loads, as smaller pellets of the same weight will take up less room... Some of that is often negated by the necessity of a thicker wad, but in the case of TSS, it is my understanding, that there is often the issue of having to make spacers for some loads.
No doubt but that there is an advantage to denser shot. It holds together in a pattern more consistently and for longer ranges. It has and holds down-range energy longer than less dense materials. But you do NOT get a larger pellet count, of pellets that weigh the same, unless you increase the payload.
I think you're confused
Here are the numbers:
Lead #5: 173/oz
TSS #9: 362/oz
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Just for the record here's the pellet count:
One ounce #5 lead 173 pellets
One ounce #9 TSS 362 pellets
I shoot apex 7.5's. They shoot great at 40yards. Some states like Delaware for instance doesn't allow any shot smaller than a #6 unless it's in a blended shell that has 4's 5's or 6's in it also. So I use federal 3rd degrees because my gun shoots them good. I patterned 9's too but here in Indiana as of now 9's aren't legal but they are working on changing the rule and adding the 410 too. But it's not happened yet. Other states it's 7's so I have federal tss 7's. Pattern them 4 loads and read the rules for where you are going and you should set. Good luck ????????
i was gonna chime in but the info others posted is spot on! great tss info on size and energy
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Anything larger than a #9 is overkill. As others have mentioned weight and density are different. Combine a TSS #9s density with the fact there are 360 pellets/oz and it turns a 20g/.410 into a monster.